Ah, as the festive season lights up ahead I find myself confronting - once again - my long list of subscriptions on the App Store and Mac App Store.

Actually, it's a list that's rapidly getting shorter, as I ruthlessly evaluate how often I actually use apps which, as a CRIMPer, I would prefer to keep, but in practice barely ever touch.

Also, the (re)discovery of MacJournal's comprehensive range of features has caused me to question quite a few of my go-to subscriber apps.

Most recent in my "cancel subscription" list is, alas, KeepIt (and KeepIt Mobile). I've had just a few too many issues with synchronisation of what is admittedly a very large corpus of documents over the last couple of years, and as a result have found I trust the two apps less and less. Notebooks (although the desktop version hasn't been updated for quite a long time) is a valid alternative, I feel. At a pinch, Scrivener could also be used as an alternative, although it's not optimised for info management in quite the same way. And actually, it's time I took another look at DEVONthink for iOS, too. I need to find some more effective way to manage what is now a very large Curiota collection of PDFs (web pages, references, downloaded docs etc.).

I'm even questioning Ulysses, which I've been using for a long time (so transferring the data will be a laugh a minute - but hey, Markdown!). With options such as MWeb around, and in view of iaWriter's sudden revitalisation, I'm really not convinced that Ulysses offers as much value-added as it could/arguably should. Also, I've recently discovered Zettlr, which is pretty darn cool (and free!). Of course it doesn't have an iOS app (yet).

Favourites I will continue to subscribe will probably include Bear and Outlinely. They're modest subscriptions for very competent cross-platform apps. On the other hand, I can do something very similar to Bear using Simplenote (although I do love Bear's interface!). Outlinely is still, I think, unique, despite impending competition from Workflowy, DynaList et al.

One of my new favourites is UpNote (for reasons discussed elsewhere). Yes, it's a subscription app, but it's very cheap and works very well. And the developer is charming!

Of course I could simply scrap everything in sight and stick with Alfons Schmid's golden oldie Notebooks, which did all the things lots of other, more recent apps do years before anybody else. But before I do that, I might harass him on the current status of the app(s), since development has stagnated for a while now.

Cheers!
Bill

Oh, and having said that development work on Notebooks appeared to be stagnating, I've just found the following post on Alfon's blog:

https://www.notebooksapp.com/celebrating-notebooks-10th-anniversary/

Notebooks 2.0 for Mac should be out before the end of the year! Whoopee!!!

Thank you for your thoughtful post, Bill.

I recently cancelled my Keep It subscription and removed it from my iOS devices since I just wasn't using the sync feature. I already sync docs with DEVONthink and didn't need two document managers. If Files were more robust and didn't seem like yet another Apple afterthought, then I might pare down even more.

I like Notebooks a lot -- always have -- and it's good to see 2.0 is on the horizon.

I cancelled Outlinely also, because I wasn't using it as much as I formerly did.

BTW, today the App Store notified me that there was an update for Quiver (the first update in years, I believe). But when I tried to install the update the App Store said the app had been removed. WTF?

Oh, wow, yes, Quiver appears to have disappeared from the Mac App Store as well!

Goodness, that's a huge shame. What a great app Quiver is - I guess that means it won't be developed any further. I'll hassle the developer!

Yaogang Lian's tweet stream says he's working on Quiver full time and 3.2 should be available soon. Looks like maybe something got hosed in posting the update to the Mac AppStore. That happens sometimes. Stand by.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Oh, wow, yes, Quiver appears to have disappeared from the Mac App Store
as well!

Goodness, that's a huge shame. What a great app Quiver is - I guess that
means it won't be developed any further. I'll hassle the developer!

Ah, well spotted. I haven't corresponded with him in some time, so it's good to hear he's (re)committed to Quiver - hopefully also the iOS version!

A hopeful note: Quiver still shows up on the iOS App Store. More evidence that the Mac App Store issue is just a temporary glitch.

Steve Z.

And the developer's enthusiastic notes accompanying version 3.2 (which updated just this morning on my machine) suggests this is just a temporary thing... he's rewritten a lot of stuff, apparently, and sounds as if he's back in harness again!

I just say: NO.

washere wrote:

I just say: NO.

Wow, washere. That must have been your shortest post here.
Nevertheless as difficult to understand as usual. What are you referring to? (Really, I am interested)

Franz Grieser wrote:

washere wrote:
>I just say: NO.

Wow, washere. That must have been your shortest post here.
Nevertheless as difficult to understand as usual. What are you referring
to? (Really, I am interested)

What do you think Sherlock? OP Title. Heard of Nancy's catchphrase? Not Sid Vicious'. With your usual characteristic bitter POV on life & flaming here, once again you're "lost in translation". Not seeing the trees from the forest, wasted life really.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Oh, and having said that development work on Notebooks appeared to be
stagnating, I've just found the following post on Alfon's blog:

https://www.notebooksapp.com/celebrating-notebooks-10th-anniversary/

Notebooks 2.0 for Mac should be out before the end of the year!
Whoopee!!!

Can anyone speak to the current differences between KeepIt and Notebooks? (I have the latter but haven't been using it, but a lot of people, like everyone at MacStories, seems to be using KeepIt [sometimes alongside DevonThink]).

That's an interesting question. Notebooks and Keep It both keep your files, in their original formats, in external folders freely accessible in the file system. Notebooks doesn't create any special "Notebooks"-formatted files. On the other hand, Keep It can create .kpnote "files" (macOS packages, really) that are not portable to other apps. But both apps can read/write ordinary text files.

Functionally, I think Keep It relies a little more on external editors than Notebooks, but both apps let you open a document in, say, a PDF annotation app and save the changes back to the library seamlessly.

For me, it's more a matter of taste. There are functional differences -- for example, Notebooks can be used to assign tasks to documents and track them -- but overall I don't think there is a huge reason to prefer one over the other, subscription costs aside. We'll have to see what Notebooks 2.0 offers vs. Keep It, then the time comes.

satis wrote:

Can anyone speak to the current differences between KeepIt and
Notebooks? (I have the latter but haven't been using it, but a lot of
people, like everyone at MacStories, seems to be using KeepIt [sometimes
alongside DevonThink]).

As of today, Quiver is now completely gone from the U.S. Mac App Store -- links to the App Store from happenapps.com say "not available in this territory". Hope this is temporary.

Paul Korm wrote:

Yaogang Lian's tweet stream says he's working on Quiver full time and
3.2 should be available soon. Looks like maybe something got hosed in
posting the update to the Mac AppStore. That happens sometimes. Stand
by.

MadaboutDana wrote:
Oh, wow, yes, Quiver appears to have disappeared from the Mac App Store
>as well!
>
>Goodness, that's a huge shame. What a great app Quiver is - I guess
that
>means it won't be developed any further. I'll hassle the developer!

I wonder if there are plans for a new Windows version of Notebooks.

Also, if the Notebooks folder is stored in Dropbox, will the files be available on more than one PC? I have recently discovered to my chagrin that keeping files in Dropbox doesn't mean an automatic sync with some programs - for example, it does for MyInfo, but not EssentialPIM.

Thanks.

Paul Korm wrote:

That's an interesting question. Notebooks and Keep It both keep your
files, in their original formats, in external folders freely accessible
in the file system. Notebooks doesn't create any special
"Notebooks"-formatted files. On the other hand, Keep It can create
.kpnote "files" (macOS packages, really) that are not portable to other
apps. But both apps can read/write ordinary text files.

Functionally, I think Keep It relies a little more on external editors
than Notebooks, but both apps let you open a document in, say, a PDF
annotation app and save the changes back to the library seamlessly.

For me, it's more a matter of taste. There are functional differences
-- for example, Notebooks can be used to assign tasks to documents and
track them -- but overall I don't think there is a huge reason to prefer
one over the other, subscription costs aside. We'll have to see what
Notebooks 2.0 offers vs. Keep It, then the time comes.

satis wrote:
>Can anyone speak to the current differences between KeepIt and
>Notebooks? (I have the latter but haven't been using it, but a lot of
>people, like everyone at MacStories, seems to be using KeepIt
[sometimes
>alongside DevonThink]).

Oops, I just checked the Notebooks site again, and I see that a Notebooks folder in Dropbox is available on another computer on which Notebooks is installed. So I may take another look at Notebooks.

Thanks again.

Daly

Daly de Gagne wrote:

I wonder if there are plans for a new Windows version of Notebooks.

Also, if the Notebooks folder is stored in Dropbox, will the files be
available on more than one PC? I have recently discovered to my chagrin
that keeping files in Dropbox doesn't mean an automatic sync with some
programs - for example, it does for MyInfo, but not EssentialPIM.

Thanks.

Paul Korm wrote:
That's an interesting question. Notebooks and Keep It both keep your
>files, in their original formats, in external folders freely accessible
>in the file system. Notebooks doesn't create any special
>"Notebooks"-formatted files. On the other hand, Keep It can create
>.kpnote "files" (macOS packages, really) that are not portable to other
>apps. But both apps can read/write ordinary text files.
>
>Functionally, I think Keep It relies a little more on external editors
>than Notebooks, but both apps let you open a document in, say, a PDF
>annotation app and save the changes back to the library seamlessly.
>
>For me, it's more a matter of taste. There are functional differences
>-- for example, Notebooks can be used to assign tasks to documents and
>track them -- but overall I don't think there is a huge reason to
prefer
>one over the other, subscription costs aside. We'll have to see what
>Notebooks 2.0 offers vs. Keep It, then the time comes.
>
>satis wrote:
>>Can anyone speak to the current differences between KeepIt and
>>Notebooks? (I have the latter but haven't been using it, but a lot of
>>people, like everyone at MacStories, seems to be using KeepIt
>[sometimes
>>alongside DevonThink]).

Daly de Gagne wrote:

I wonder if there are plans for a new Windows version of Notebooks.

I asked Alfons on his blog whether the Windows version will still be compatible after he introduced major improvements to the MacOS and iOS versions.

His answer: "we will do our best to make sure the versions remain compatible"

Also, if the Notebooks folder is stored in Dropbox, will the files be
available on more than one PC? I have recently discovered to my chagrin
that keeping files in Dropbox doesn't mean an automatic sync with some
programs - for example, it does for MyInfo, but not EssentialPIM.

I use Dropbox to sync my Notebooks folders and notes between Windows, MacOS and iOS. No problems in 2 1/2 years that were caused by Notebooks or Dropbox.

Franz Grieser wrote:

washere wrote:
>I just say: NO.

Wow, washere. That must have been your shortest post here.
Nevertheless as difficult to understand as usual. What are you referring
to? (Really, I am interested)

The healing and therapeutic power of NO is intuitively obvious, something I discovered while researching Ed Wynn's character in the early 60's Mary Poppins movie.

That was long before my research ideas coalesced in DEVONThink, or even that wonderful pre-cretaceous DOS knowledge database, Peabody. Or Sherman. Or whatever it was.

I always used my tablet in those days. My Big Chief tablet.

NO was a big part of my life, as it was in Ed Wynn's portrayal of Uncle Albert, and I suspect you have found...

Oh, wait. I thought you meant Nitrous Oxide.

Never mind. Funny how my mind works. Particularly when there's NO in the wind. Seems funny, anyway.

Almost forgot. I've also been thinking twice about Ulysses. It's one of the few utilities I don't mind subscribing to.

Actually, I do mind, but I can stomach the idea. It's an actively supported package that I would faithfully keep updated.

On the other hand, one of the things that Devonthink does for me is provide a wrapper to iCloud syncing. I don't want to install dropbox because I don't like their security model, and I'd rather not add additional syncing things on my laptop.

I don't like iCloud because of its lack of control. I can't force a sync, and there is no status utility. There are also hidden things in iCloud. When I deleted Ulysses out of protest against their subscription, I thought I completely deleted it. Then, when I went back because Ulysses is pretty cool, all my old documents were still in iCloud, just not visible in iCloud Drive.

When I sync a Devonthink database, I can see the sync progress. It appears I can trust that.

Right now, a typical creative writing effort will have a mind map or two, an outline or two, perhaps some notes, and my draft in Ulysses.

I'd much rather have everything in one place, in Devonthink. Ulysses will edit outside files, as in DT, but I keep thinking about simpler ideas.

For instance, just writing markdown in DT itself, compiling with pandoc.

In fact, I might even use RTF in DT, but the styles support is DT's weakest feature. If there was a version of Nisus for IOS, that would be an alternative.

Wherever my migrations take me, I like some degree of consistency and portability between IOS and MacOS.

@Amontillado: it sounds as if Scrivener would be a good fit with your needs; it's not just a writing tool, it's also a very useful information repository (with a good search function). The dual-window mode is also an excellent feature if you're looking for an all-in-one writing/info management tool. And of course it's also cross-platform (Windows, Mac, iOS).

As for iCloud status, or lack of it - yes, that used to annoy me until I discovered a neat little utility called, tarara! iCloudStatus (http://www.thealchemistguild.com/icloudstatus I can thoroughly recommend it.

As for Notebooks and Dropbox - yes, Alfons set it up to handle Dropbox (almost) right from the start. There were a few teething problems, which he tackled with his customary thoroughness, and synchronisation is now absolutely rock-solid (and has been for years). But you can also use the WebDAV server of your choice - in fact, Notebooks can also function as a WebDAV server, if you wish.

Like Scrivener, the iOS version of Notebooks supports dual-window mode, which is very convenient if you're writing and accessing research results simultaneously. A major weakness of the existing desktop version 1.0 is that it doesn't; it doesn't even allow you to open multiple windows. But according to the screenshot of version 2.0 on Alfons's website, the new version will indeed support multiple windows, which is very good news. He also hints at extra features in the desktop version (which has been completely rewritten) that don't yet exist in the iOS one! A CRIMPer's Christmas delight!

Cheers,
Bill

Good advice, Bill.

Scrivener is very nice, and the people behind it are truly a writer's friend. It seems like there could be more elegance and less complexity in the product's design, though.

For instance, you can have four files open at once, with split editor screens and copyholder windows. But the editing features aren't the same between the editor screens and the copyholders.

You can also open multiple files in separate windows, but the separate window editor also has a different feature set.

I probably overthink everything. Scrivener is nice, and I really like the open nature of its project formats.