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Visual Outliner (new from the developer of Goal Enforcer)
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Posted by Rochus
Nov 15, 2018 at 11:32 PM
Correction:
The forum software definitely seem to swallow text with similarities to HTML tags. Here (hopefully) the missing text:
>left_outline_tag title=“Name of My 2nd Root Node” text=“Can be: Scene TWO, at root level.
> Next line: notice just a carriage return, no coding or tags needed unlike HTML etc
> Write on…............ Can not be a simpler format.”>
>right_outline_tag
Question: as you write the carriage returns are preserved; but what
about the whitespace left of “Next line…” and “Write on..”?
>1) Just use the 2 OMPL tags left_outline_tag title=“Whatever Node Name” text=“BLAH BLAH BLAH”> right_outline_tag
If the outline item is either a title or a text, I can create an outline
tag with either a title or a text attribute, right?
Posted by Stephen Diamond
Nov 16, 2018 at 12:18 AM
Washere wrote:
> - NEEDS DUAL PANE, not just single. So each node can have INLINE DATA i.e. Node text data.
It could benefit from a place for notes, but why necessarily a second pane. Why not something like what the defunct NoteMap used. (Clickable attached notes.) That is closer to true inline notes because numerous notes can be open at the same time.
A second pane would diminish Visual Outliner’s ability to distinguish itself from the plethora of two-pane outline organizers.
Posted by washere
Nov 16, 2018 at 01:24 AM
Rochus wrote:
> washere wrote:
>
>Thank you very much for your explications.
>
>>The file size does not matter as long as the nesting does not break
>>scope like other html nesting tags (li, url etc etd).
>
>It’s not about the file size; but if I have externally validated data of
>reasonable size I can use it to develop and test my parser/importer and
>can be sure that I have seen and corrected most of the issues.
>
>>
Name”
>>text=“BLAH BLAH BLAH”>
>
>If the outline item is either a title or a text, I can create an outline
>tag with either a title or a text attribute, right?
>
>>3) Avoid temptation to add further OMPL v1 & v2 tag options
>
>Ok; of course text formatting and embedded images get lost, only plain
>text is exported.
>
>>be read by almost any app that pretends to import OPML.
>
>By the way: have you noticed that CrossLine can import HTML files and
>translates the title structure to outline levels? Here is an example:
>http://software.rochus-keller.info/WarAndPeace.cldb.zip. I downloaded
>and imported the HTML version of War and Peace from
>http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2600/2600-h/2600-h.htm as recommended in
>http://www.organizingcreativity.com/2018/02/what-makes-a-good-outliner .
* Some apps will trim white spaces at start or end of line on import.
* I would say might be best not to leave title blank, text att being blank should be ok for most if not all app imports.
* Same with data format, definitely needs title, I would include text too even if followed by a blank data holder =”” just in case some apps need it for import
* I have bookmarked CrossLine to play with later on. Interesting ideas on html outlining.
I always thought html outliner tags, ul ol li dl, could be packaged together in some nice app as a universal outlining format, with nice code folding. But most devs rather invent their own formats. Would be great if a minimum number of tags could be chosen to do that, sort of universal outlining gateway.
Posted by washere
Nov 16, 2018 at 02:00 AM
Stephen Diamond wrote:
Washere wrote:
>
>> - NEEDS DUAL PANE, not just single. So each node can have INLINE DATA
>i.e. Node text data.
>
>It could benefit from a place for notes, but why necessarily a second
>pane. Why not something like what the defunct NoteMap used. (Clickable
>attached notes.) That is closer to true inline notes because numerous
>notes can be open at the same time.
>
>A second pane would diminish Visual Outliner’s ability to distinguish
>itself from the plethora of two-pane outline organizers.
Inline data as a single pane might be good for you but not for others. Outliner app on android does that.
vs. Halna also onAndroid which gives the option as dual pane (Change Style). The burger menu style of geological strata of inline layers compresses all into a jumble. And if expanding all needs a 6 foot tall screen in many cases.
Also the eye has to work hard and trace and make mental dual panes..
It is not easy to see at a glance the structural form and links as it is in dual pane.
But that is just personal preferences, however the plethora as you might say shows which is more natural and ergonomic on the eye and brain.
The dev asked for feedback. I gave mine. You criticize mine and give yours. I think yours is much worse as the masses have shown and expanded on mine only in response to your question.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Which brings us to the main elephant in the room:
That is why I said the dual pane could be an extra option.
That it could still load as a single paner as it is now.
That those who need it could enable dual pane only if they chose so.
etc etc.
Why did I emphasize so much about keeping it as a single pane default launch as is now?
Despite adding dual pane option for those idiots like me who want it hidden out of sight of those who hate it so much vehemently?
Because I knew despite all that emphasis someone would say why not a single paner?
Well it would still be a default single pane. Wouldn’t it? I said enough times.
Which brings us to a much more interesting question. Why despite me saying so many times it should stay a single pane on launch and default, why would you say the option for dual pane should not even be buried away somewhere in the options?
How does it hurt you if the option for dual pane is somewhere out of your face, but still gets into your mind?
It is like the heterosexual fundamentalists who seek out gays and question what they do in their privacy and bedrooms and try to “correct and heal” them.
The answer as with most touching issues in my opinion is: human emotions.
It seems to me for some reason the single pane zeal comes from the emotional history of single pane users who lost the few good options on Windows which became abandonware. They saw how on the mac this was not the case and to make things worse, dual paners flourished everywhere.
One can see this not on this forum archives but elsewhere too.
This dev is trying to cash in on this nostalgic longing, like remembering fave foods mom used to make. He will get a good crop, at first, but to keep going he would need more than a few who reminisce to make his efforts worth his while.
As for a logical rational critical reasoning to this emotional want which desires to deny others whatever is hidden in options even if it fully gets what it longs for? I am not going to even try. But observing it is quite fascinating.
I promise not to buy this even if he adds the dual pane option buried somewhere deep in settings, well segregated from those righteous who might be offended if they knew it was literally there. I hope this makes the single-pane “base” happy and not lynch me or shove their pitchforks up my ... . :)
Posted by Franz Grieser
Nov 16, 2018 at 02:08 PM
washere wrote:
>How does it hurt you if the option for dual pane is somewhere out of
>your face, but still gets into your mind?
>
>It is like the heterosexual fundamentalists who seek out gays and
>question what they do in their privacy and bedrooms and try to “correct
>and heal” them.
WHAT?