This discussion thread is still "TheBrain v10 Alpha is available", right?
Or should it be changed to "Microsoft Office HATE", or something - assuming most forum contributors might prefer that?
Either way, I do feel that a discussion on "MS Office Licencing - Facts and Fiction" could be enlightening, given some of the above posts/comments.

Meanwhile, I feel sure that The Brain continues to be an excellent product, though some may disagree over the niceties of its licencing.

Anyone (well, anyone with $400) can purchase Microsoft Office Plus, the version that includes Access:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/office-professional-2016/cfq7ttc0k5f8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

As a matter of fact, it appears that purchasing --as opposed to
renting-- is available only for home/student editions, whereas
professionals and businesses only get the rental options:
https://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-office-products?tab=2

While this discussion is quite off-topic, I have to say that I am
grateful for bringing this issue to my attention.

Pierre Paul Landry wrote:
tightbeam wrote:
>>irresponsible rumors to the contrary notwithstanding (...)
>Bob, that's a bit harsh, no ? Paul acknowledged it is in fact possible
>to buy (at least some) versions of Office, though as it is evident from
>MS web site, they strongly favor the rent approach.
>
>So much so that I could not find a purchase option of a MS Office
>version that included Access (the old Office Pro). Perhaps it is
>possible, but hardly advertised...

tightbeam wrote:

Anyone (well, anyone with $400) can purchase Microsoft Office Plus, the
version that includes Access:

But it still is upto Microsoft to enable it. All software activation that need server contact to install and use means that you don't own the software. You see it in the gaming industry that almost all the games in the early millenium years are non installable anymore and worthless - at least at this time they still had nice boxes you can now put on your shelf.

Unfortunately i've never seen this activation question answered on the website.

And back to the topic. I really think that software vendors need to offer a "next major release OR next 3 years" updates included. Because i see updates more like a warranty and everything below 2 years is a disgrace and greedy rip-off because 2 years is already mandatory by law on every physical product in the EU.

If you buy the software, Microsoft will enable it, and will keep it enabled, for as long as they're in business, which I imagine will be longer than the remaining lifespan alloted to me here on our wonderful planet earth. That's sufficient "ownership" (for me).

I do agree with your other point, about "'next major release OR next 3 years' updates included".

Lothar Scholz wrote:

tightbeam wrote:
Anyone (well, anyone with $400) can purchase Microsoft Office Plus, the
>version that includes Access:

But it still is upto Microsoft to enable it. All software activation
that need server contact to install and use means that you don't own the
software. You see it in the gaming industry that almost all the games in
the early millenium years are non installable anymore and worthless - at
least at this time they still had nice boxes you can now put on your
shelf.

Unfortunately i've never seen this activation question answered on the
website.

And back to the topic. I really think that software vendors need to
offer a "next major release OR next 3 years" updates included. Because
i see updates more like a warranty and everything below 2 years is a
disgrace and greedy rip-off because 2 years is already mandatory by law
on every physical product in the EU.

tightbeam wrote:

Anyone (well, anyone with $400) can purchase Microsoft Office Plus, the
version that includes Access:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/office-professional-2016/cfq7ttc0k5f8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

So true... Thanks

Also true is the **very** unusual upgrade policy for it:
-------
One-time purchases don’t have an upgrade option, which means if you plan to upgrade to the next major release, you'll have to buy it at full price.
-------

Pierre

I imagine that's because they're trying to steer customers toward the subscription plan.

Pierre Paul Landry wrote:

tightbeam wrote:
Anyone (well, anyone with $400) can purchase Microsoft Office Plus, the
>version that includes Access:
>
>https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/office-professional-2016/cfq7ttc0k5f8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab
>
So true... Thanks

Also true is the **very** unusual upgrade policy for it:
-------
One-time purchases don’t have an upgrade option, which means if
you plan to upgrade to the next major release, you'll have to buy it at
full price.
-------

Pierre

tightbeam wrote:

If you buy the software, Microsoft will enable it, and will keep it enabled, for as long
as they’re in business, which I imagine will be longer than the remaining lifespan allotted
to me here on our wonderful planet earth. That’s sufficient “ownership” (for me).

Tightbeam is misinformed, this statement is not true.

Microsoft will enable your license key for as long as suits them.

The license keys issued with Microsoft Office 2010 can no longer be re-activated because Microsoft have discontinued the phone line which allowed re-activation. This means that an unused code can be activated ONCE over the internet, it can no longer be re-activated. I don't know the status of Microsoft Office 2013. As far as I know the re-activation service is probably still available for Microsoft Office 2016 but Microsoft could discontinue it any time they feel like it.

To say that "Microsoft will enable it, and will keep it enabled, for as long as they’re in business" is either hopelessly naïve or quite disingenuous.

The license key system employed by Microsoft since the early 2000's is that you get a code which you enter when you install the software, when the software is run it then checks that code over the internet with a database run by Microsoft and checks that the code has not been used before. This is what activates the software, not the entry of the code. Up to Office 2010 you could activate the code on two computers (this was for customers with a laptop and desktop machine), from 2013 onwards you could only activate the code on one machine.

Your license key would remain active for as long as you had the software installed on your machine. If you needed to re-install/re-activate your software (for instance after re-installing Windows on your machine) then there was a phone line to call and they would issue a number if you could convince them that you had a valid reason for re-activating the license.

If you did install it on more machines than the license permitted, for instance if you got a number after having said that the software had been un-installed on another machine when it had not then this would work until the machines did their updates from Microsoft at which time one or more of the installations would de-activate it's license.

Without an active license the software stops working.

I bought Microsoft Office 2010 and installed it on my laptop, I used it for a while and then had an unrelated problem with a piece of malware which required a 'Windows Reset' which is like a re-installation of Windows 10. It requires all the software on the machine to be re-installed. Most of it without a problem, but when it came to Microsoft Office 2010 I could re-install but not re-activate the license on the machine on which it was originally installed because Microsoft has withdrawn the re-activation service for software which it regards as being too old!

Perhaps they want me to go out and buy a new copy, or maybe get the rental version!

No doubt I will be be slapped up the side of the head for mentioning this, just hoping to rescue the topic of the this thread before it was hijacked. But a quick Google search for "Office 2010 telephone activation" leads to this page as the second suggestion:

https://support.office.com/en-us/article/-telephone-activation-is-no-longer-supported-for-your-product-error-when-activating-office-9b016cd2-0811-4cb3-b896-5a6a13177713


Paul J. Miller wrote:

The license keys issued with Microsoft Office 2010 can no longer be
re-activated because Microsoft have discontinued the phone line which
allowed re-activation. This means that an unused code can be activated
ONCE over the internet, it can no longer be re-activated.

You let your bias against Microsoft get in the way of the truth. You most certainly can reactivate Office 2010. I see that someone else did the Google search for you.

Microsoft doesn't discontinue software support "whenever they feel like it." They announce such things well in advance, and usually post "road maps" to prepare users for the inevitable. Like this road map for 2010:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/office-2010-end-support-roadmap



Paul J. Miller wrote:

tightbeam wrote:

>If you buy the software, Microsoft will enable it, and will keep it
enabled, for as long
>as they’re in business, which I imagine will be longer than the
remaining lifespan allotted
>to me here on our wonderful planet earth. That’s sufficient
“ownership” (for me).

Tightbeam is misinformed, this statement is not true.

Microsoft will enable your license key for as long as suits them.

The license keys issued with Microsoft Office 2010 can no longer be
re-activated because Microsoft have discontinued the phone line which
allowed re-activation. This means that an unused code can be activated
ONCE over the internet, it can no longer be re-activated. I don't know
the status of Microsoft Office 2013. As far as I know the re-activation
service is probably still available for Microsoft Office 2016 but
Microsoft could discontinue it any time they feel like it.

To say that "Microsoft will enable it, and will keep it enabled, for as
long as they’re in business" is either hopelessly naïve or
quite disingenuous.

The license key system employed by Microsoft since the early 2000's is
that you get a code which you enter when you install the software, when
the software is run it then checks that code over the internet with a
database run by Microsoft and checks that the code has not been used
before. This is what activates the software, not the entry of the code.
Up to Office 2010 you could activate the code on two computers (this
was for customers with a laptop and desktop machine), from 2013 onwards
you could only activate the code on one machine.

Your license key would remain active for as long as you had the software
installed on your machine. If you needed to re-install/re-activate your
software (for instance after re-installing Windows on your machine) then
there was a phone line to call and they would issue a number if you
could convince them that you had a valid reason for re-activating the
license.

If you did install it on more machines than the license permitted, for
instance if you got a number after having said that the software had
been un-installed on another machine when it had not then this would
work until the machines did their updates from Microsoft at which time
one or more of the installations would de-activate it's license.

Without an active license the software stops working.

I bought Microsoft Office 2010 and installed it on my laptop, I used it
for a while and then had an unrelated problem with a piece of malware
which required a 'Windows Reset' which is like a re-installation of
Windows 10. It requires all the software on the machine to be
re-installed. Most of it without a problem, but when it came to
Microsoft Office 2010 I could re-install but not re-activate the license
on the machine on which it was originally installed because Microsoft
has withdrawn the re-activation service for software which it regards as
being too old!

Perhaps they want me to go out and buy a new copy, or maybe get the
rental version!

As for TheBrain and a new version coming up... As far as I understand the idea was to get v9 to a stable release, then get it out. That's what they did. Instead of messing around with v9 they've now started work on v10. I run v10 all day long, every day, and am very happy with the addition of nested tags (previously only types could be nested). Good to have search in external attachments back as well.

As for the SaaS discussion: I appreciate products like TheBrain and Evernote precisely because they allow me to have a copy in the cloud and a local copy. If I would want to stop paying, the local software will continue to work. I'll feel even better with TheBrain once we have more export functionality back again.

Fully agreed on both points. In addition, v9 is receiving regular updates with minor fixes.

ruudhein wrote:

As for TheBrain and a new version coming up... As far as I understand
the idea was to get v9 to a stable release, then get it out. That's what
they did. Instead of messing around with v9 they've now started work on
v10. I run v10 all day long, every day, and am very happy with the
addition of nested tags (previously only types could be nested). Good to
have search in external attachments back as well.

As for the SaaS discussion: I appreciate products like TheBrain and
Evernote precisely because they allow me to have a copy in the cloud and
a local copy. If I would want to stop paying, the local software will
continue to work. I'll feel even better with TheBrain once we have more
export functionality back again.