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Which "favorite" outliner app would you give up if something better came along
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Posted by satis
Jul 8, 2018 at 04:12 AM
Luhmann wrote:
>For me OO just doesn’t work right as an outliner. I’ve tried it many
>times, but I can never get used to it. I don’t need any of the fancy
>spreadsheet or styling features it offers. I’ve tried OO Essentials, but
>it still rubs me the wrong way. I really, really, wish I could use it,
>because it does seem to be one of the only options with a decent iOS app
>that works similarly to the desktop - but after using
>Workflowy/Dynalist/Outlinely/Mubu, it just drives me up the wall…
I’m using OO Essentials right now, and I agree with you. The deliberately restricted choice of styles/fonts/sizes are designed to migrate you to the full version. I don’t need any of the extra columns or audio recording or notes in panes, but the style restrictions may just cause me to pay them the extra $40 just to choose my own fonts and sizes.
Assuming I decide to keep using it.
Problem is, I haven’t found anything decidedly better for my purposes. And it’s convenient enough to export the OPML to MindNode when needed, or to the iOS free version, so I may just be sticking (and stuck) with it for now. And I do like having my data sit on just my machines, and over the years the free Omni Sync Server has proven itself.
Dynalist seems like a reasonable alternative but its limitations hold me back, and the relatively outrageous pricing (its $96/year subscription pricing is double Omni’s iOS/Mac upgrade purchase pricing, and at the end of the day you own your Omni apps) is a deal-killer.
Checkvist seems to be a serious competitor to Dynalist, and is only $39/yr, but it lags seriously in fonts/themes, and has no native mobile or desktop apps - a purposeful design decision that allows them to roll out changes quickly, but has obvious limitations as well.
Posted by Stephen Zeoli
Jul 8, 2018 at 12:24 PM
The simple answer to the question posed in the topic title is, all of them. In fact, my whole CRIMPing world is based on finding a better outliner. Each of the common ones (for Mac), has its advantages… but also its disadvantages. The one I use most often is Dynalist, because it has enough features to be useful, it is really easy to use, and I can use it on a PC as well as my MacBook. Its disadvantages: 1. Cloud based. 2. Poor iOS implementation. 3. Less than satisfactory export options.
Tinderbox is a great outliner, but it is an island, restricted to MacOS.
OmniOutliner is powerful, but it feels more like a place to make good looking outlines, rather than real working ones. I use it when I need to create something for public consumption, like this:
https://mountindependence.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/2018-event-schedule.pdf
Posted by tightbeam
Jul 8, 2018 at 02:01 PM
To become a “favorite” of mine, an outliner must have three features (other people, of course, will have different ideas of what a favorite makes):
- easy and intuitive to use (if I can’t launch the software and begin outlining immediately, without having to consult a knowledge base or a “quick-start” guide, then already it’s created friction between me and getting done what I want to get done);
- cross-platform (many good outliners are Mac-only because their developers lack the technical skills or business sense or gumption to make their products available to larger markets - same applies to Windows-centric developers); and
- robust export options (plain text and Word at a minimum).
Dynalist ticks the first two of these three boxes. You *can* “export” a Dynalist outline to plain text, but the mechanism for doing so sucks: it’s glorified copy and paste. You can download outlines as HTML or OPML, but those formats aren’t useful to me (at least not for the work I do in Dynalist), and the copy-and-paste “formatted text” feature is a poor man’s way to get the content into Word.
So, if a “super” Dynalist came along, with a proper export feature, I’d give up Dynalist.
Posted by satis
Jul 8, 2018 at 04:57 PM
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
>
>OmniOutliner is powerful, but it feels more like a place to make good
>looking outlines, rather than real working ones.
That’s curious to me. I’ve been making working text outlines on my Mac since 1986, starting with Acta (now a free download from a-sharp.com for pre macOS 10.4 machines) and I worked with it the same way I do today with OmniOutliner Essentials. Indeed, I’ve imported from OPML and edited 2-decade-old, thousand-item outlines without any problems. Since I almost never print them or make pdfs the only good looks that have mattered to me have been the UI and how the outlines look in terms of font/size and page background while in use.
For you what features would make OO a good place to make working outlines?
Posted by Hugh
Jul 8, 2018 at 05:22 PM
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
>OmniOutliner is powerful, but it feels more like a place to make good
>looking outlines, rather than real working ones. I use it when I need to
>create something for public consumption…
I do agree with you, Steve, that Omni Group seems to spend too much effort on enhancing the prettifying ability of OO and too little on upgrading its outlining capabilities (for example, clones, please). However, as I’ve mentioned here previously, OO does have the advantage over many potential rivals which have come and gone over the years that, judging from the Omni Group track record, it’s likely to be around for a good while yet.