The "Summerfest" sale on macOS software is up and running again this year.

http://artisanalsoftwarefestival.com/

Includes 25% off on Tinderbox, DEVONthink, Scrivener and a number of other titles.

Note that some of these titles are also available through a Setapp subscription -- not all and not Tinderbox or DEVONthink -- so Setapp might work out better for some folks.

I availed myself of the deal for Panorama X. I have been looking for a good database application for Mac since Bento was shut down. I was trying to use TapForms, but it has some issues: sometimes when I'd update data and then click into another field, the update wouldn't take affect and I'd have to do it over again. Also, it is a convoluted process creating and printing mailing labels -- and they don't always print right.

In two hours working with Panorama X, I've recreated my database and set up mailing labels. It isn't always intuitive, but ProVue has created an excellent set of tutorials and animated help files.

Panorama X is subscription based, but the countdown on your subscription only applies while you're using it, so with intermittent use your 12 month subscription can last a couple of years or more.

So -- Summerfest has brought me a good solution.

Steve Z.

Steve, I'm in a similar position: on Bento, tried Tap Forms, not entirely happy. In fact, I've returned to using Bento, despite it seeming pretty flakey on High Sierra. So may I ask - did you import your data directly from Bento to Panorama? If so, in what format? And did it import accurately and easily?

Hugh,

I bought a new computer six months ago and wasn't able to install Bento, so I've been using TapForms. I exported the data from TF as a CSV file. Panorama X imports CSV files really nicely. You can either open a CSV file into Panorama, which results in a new database with fields for each column. Or you can create a database to import into -- that's what I did. And then you can match which columns in the CSV file go with which fields in your Panorama database... Did I explain that clearly?

My file isn't too sophisticated. It's a membership list. Really the only field that isn't a text string or a number is a date field and that crossed from the CSV into Panorama just fine. Honestly, I was just playing around with the import, not really expecting it to work the first time. But it did. There is a lot to learn with Panorama X, but I was able to get it to serve my purpose after watching a couple of the tutorial videos, and looking at a few of the help pages.

Steve Z.

Ninox database might provide what you need. It works pretty well for things like membership lists and the like. https://ninoxdb.de/en/

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Hugh,

I bought a new computer six months ago and wasn't able to install Bento,
so I've been using TapForms. I exported the data from TF as a CSV file.
Panorama X imports CSV files really nicely. You can either open a CSV
file into Panorama, which results in a new database with fields for each
column. Or you can create a database to import into -- that's what I
did. And then you can match which columns in the CSV file go with which
fields in your Panorama database... Did I explain that clearly?

My file isn't too sophisticated. It's a membership list. Really the only
field that isn't a text string or a number is a date field and that
crossed from the CSV into Panorama just fine. Honestly, I was just
playing around with the import, not really expecting it to work the
first time. But it did. There is a lot to learn with Panorama X, but I
was able to get it to serve my purpose after watching a couple of the
tutorial videos, and looking at a few of the help pages.

Steve Z.

Crystal clear. Many thanks, Steve.

I've tried Ninox, but it had a failing that made it unusable for me... I think it was that it doesn't print mailing labels.

DataMill wrote:

Ninox database might provide what you need. It works pretty well for
things like membership lists and the like. https://ninoxdb.de/en/

Tinderbox is still 500% overpriced even with the discount!

I'll take the bait.

Tinderbox is overpriced if what you want to do less than what Tinderbox does. So, avoid it. I wouldn't buy Mathematica if I needed a calculator. Same difference.

But if you really need to get a big, complex, vaguely defined but career-critical note-based task done (like a book, or a dissertation, or a research project) then it's worth it.

In my view, Tinderbox is for professional heavy duty writers, academics, researchers, and consultants. It is extraordinarily complicated but once mastered it is extraordinarily different than any other Mac software. It's not a replacement for anything else because it is not like anything else. Unfortunately, Eastgate decided to market it as "the tool for notes". Bad choice of words, in opinion.

apb123 wrote:

Tinderbox is still 500% overpriced even with the discount!

Exactly this. There's nothing else out there with that kind of deep toolset for making sense of research whose structure you're not quite sure how to tackle when you start. Fallows' work trying to piece together a massive amount of research into the history of Afghanistan, teasing out little chunks of info with dates and names and trying to build a sense of the relationship between parties and their development over time is a good example.

It's really closer to vertical-market software for certain types of researchers, with a bit of a grad student research project feel, rather than a general tool for notes. There are definitely more refined tools for doing less complicated work, but if you need what it does, it's a bargain because there aren't serious alternatives. Most researchers who use it end up buying DevonThink as well, but the total cost of that combo is still a lot less than most vertical-market software. And the price has kept the developer solvent for at least 15 years, while other tools have come and gone.

--Chris

Paul Korm wrote:

Tinderbox is overpriced if what you want to do less than what Tinderbox
does. So, avoid it. I wouldn't buy Mathematica if I needed a
calculator. Same difference.

But if you really need to get a big, complex, vaguely defined but
career-critical note-based task done (like a book, or a dissertation, or
a research project) then it's worth it.

In my view, Tinderbox is for professional heavy duty writers, academics,
researchers, and consultants. It is extraordinarily complicated but once
mastered it is extraordinarily different than any other Mac software.
It's not a replacement for anything else because it is not like anything
else. Unfortunately, Eastgate decided to market it as "the tool for
notes". Bad choice of words, in opinion.

apb123 wrote:
Tinderbox is still 500% overpriced even with the discount!

Well put, Paul and Chris. While there is always room for debate regarding software prices, Paul is right that the program does much more than just handle notes. For instance, I recently created a customized task management and automatic scheduling solution in Tinderbox that meets my needs far better than any dedicated task management or scheduling software I've come across. For those willing to tinker, the possibilies are endless, even beyond the more typical use cases of the sort Chris described.

Lucas wrote:

Well put, Paul and Chris. While there is always room for debate
regarding software prices, Paul is right that the program does much more
than just handle notes.

Yes, well put, all. I'm one of those who think that "a tool for notes" markedly understates the value of Tinderbox and its possible uses. "A tool for thoughts" would be a more accurate and appropriate description, except perhaps that it sounds too pompous.

Weighing in on the "Is Tinderbox Worth the Price?" debate:

In my view, absolutely. If it only did the Map View it would be worth it. No other app I'm aware of has this kind of free-form diagramming capability.

If it only did what the Outliner View does, it would be worth the money. It is arguably the best outliner available.

But you get both these facilities and a whole lot more.

A few years ago, Mark Bernstein offered a slightly scaled down version of Tinderbox called Twig, which was substantially lower in price. But it didn't sell, so price point didn't attract a new user base.

Steve Z.

Lucas, if you have an anonymized version you'd be willing to share as a template it would be interesting to see your approach.

Lucas wrote:

For instance, I recently created a customized
task management and automatic scheduling solution in Tinderbox that
meets my needs far better than any dedicated task management or
scheduling software I've come across. For those willing to tinker, the
possibilies are endless, even beyond the more typical use cases of the
sort Chris described.

Pricing is a complicated subject on which much can be said. But it is usually better for the vendor not to price at the low end of your market:

-Price is a signal. A low price implies that your product isn't very good (even if that isn't true).
-You can't afford to provide decent support to someone who has only paid a few dollars.
-The less profit you make per customer the fewer marketing channels that are open to you.
-Low prices tend to attract the worst customers.

Consequently it is generally better to have 0.5X customers paying 2Y than X customers paying Y (if price elasticity allows).

--
Andy Brice
http://www.hyperplan.com