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best outliner you use? (2018)
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Posted by Stephen Zeoli
May 9, 2018 at 10:49 AM
This group has given more money to more small developers than any average software users by orders of magnitude. Suggesting that we are hypocrites unless we are willing to make annual commitments to small developers is ludicrous.
tightbeam wrote:
There’s a lot of talk on this forum about “supporting” small developers.
>A subscription scheme likely is the best way to support small
>developers, as it gives them a steady stream of income from their
>limited number of users. It seems a bit hypocritical to be deadset
>against subscriptions when that is an ideal business model for small
>developers and those who wish to support them - and in turn, gain
>support from them, in terms of bug fixes, troubleshooting, and answers
>to questions.
>
Posted by MadaboutDana
May 10, 2018 at 10:07 AM
Yes, I’d agree with Stephen here. We CRIMPers are by nature inclined to make those donations or buy those shareware licences that other folk prefer to shun.
That’s because we genuinely do appreciate the time and thought that goes into development, especially by passionate small developers.
Subscriptions may have their place, but they don’t really solve the problem. I’d much rather developers take Scrivener’s approach by explaining clearly to users (a) what they’re working on, (b) when it’s [probably] going to appear and (c) what it’s going to cost when it’s finished. This makes it much easier to decide which apps are keepers. The most promising approach to subscriptions to date has been the Setapp one, but I’m not sure how successful it’s being for the various small developers involved.
Incidentally, the idea that Scrivener’s somehow benefiting from a “buy, play, then never use again” model is somewhat absurd! People are always buying software (notably utilities) that get used once and then never again. There’s no commercial trickery involved, just human (monkey) curiosity.
Posted by jaslar
May 10, 2018 at 02:15 PM
I think there is a distinction between what this group does (CRIMP and CRIMP again) and what makes a sustainable model for a software developer. I think of something like SmartDown or Outlinely. I bought both versions of SmartDown before the developer abandoned the product to work on IAWriter. But I still have the software, and can continue to use it. It was my tip of the hat to some clever work that I admired. I don’t use Outlinely at all, mainly because I seem to work more on Windows machines at work, and a Chromebook at home these days. But I don’t mind having contributed a year’s subscription to it. I just wish I could keep it, to divert me for a day or two sometime in the future, or apply to some work project that’s a good fit for it.
I used Workflowy for about three years, on the subscription model. After I canceled, I can no longer use the product at all - although I was at least able to export and import it to another platform. The same thing will happen with Outlinely.
So it seems that the subscription model may benefit the software developer more than the user. As for how the dollars actually work out for software developers, I can’t say. But some fine products, once supported by their users, might just disappear altogether under this model. And that seems a shame.
Posted by satis
May 10, 2018 at 02:41 PM
jaslar wrote:
>I used Workflowy for about three years, on the subscription model. After
>I canceled, I can no longer use the product at all - although I was at
>least able to export and import it to another platform. The same thing
>will happen with Outlinely.
>
>So it seems that the subscription model may benefit the software
>developer more than the user.
I don’t begrudge devs whose subscriptions require people to pay for a service, and then don’t let them use it after they stop paying. Can you still use Netflix’s recommendation engine customized based on your ratings if you stop paying?
Also, it depends on the app. For example, Day One is free for a single journal with 1 image attachment/day, and export. Premium subscription gets you sync across different devices and unlimited journals and images, and more. But, unless I’m mistaken, you can still use the product pretty well for free, still access all additional journals, and still export any journals created.
Posted by tightbeam
May 10, 2018 at 05:48 PM
You speak for *everyone* in the group? That’s ludicrous. Outlining software is such a niche that paying a small developer twenty or thirty bucks for his product likely won’t keep him going forever, and certainly not if he doesn’t have a full-time job elsewhere. Once the faithful have paid for their licenses, how big is the rest of the market? A subscription *might* be the solution - but as someone else posted, subscriptions are good for developers, not for customers.
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
This group has given more money to more small developers than any
>average software users by orders of magnitude. Suggesting that we are
>hypocrites unless we are willing to make annual commitments to small
>developers is ludicrous.
>
>tightbeam wrote:
>There’s a lot of talk on this forum about “supporting” small developers.
>>A subscription scheme likely is the best way to support small
>>developers, as it gives them a steady stream of income from their
>>limited number of users. It seems a bit hypocritical to be deadset
>>against subscriptions when that is an ideal business model for small
>>developers and those who wish to support them - and in turn, gain
>>support from them, in terms of bug fixes, troubleshooting, and answers
>>to questions.
>>