I have been a WorkFlowy paying customer since 2014 and use it to keep track of all kind of notes, including about books, articles, restaurants, travel plans, people I meet, things I've done ("journaling"), health data, gifts, ideas, recipes, and more. In all, I currently have more than 70,000 "nodes" in WorkFlowy.

I still have lots of good things to say about WorkFlowy; however, I have found it not supporting image attachments to be increasingly limiting. I've tried putting images somewhere else like Imgur, and using a link in WorkFlowy, but haven't found this workaround satisfactory.

Hence I am today looking for an alternative. And where could one find a better community than this one to ask for advice?! My "requirements" are:

1. Outliner-like with support for infinite nesting, folding, and focusing on a sub-tree.
2. Supports image attachments, showing a thumbnail inline with the possibility of viewing the full-size image.
3. Works wells with a large number of "nodes".
4. Provides quick search, which I use constantly.
5. Has a good mobile app, at least for iOS, that syncs, and can be used offline, at a minimum for searching and viewing (both text and images).
6. On the desktop, I'm using macOS, so a web app or macOS app will do.
7. Less than $100 to purchase or, if subscription-based, less than $50 /year.
8. Has a history being maintained, regularly updated, and supported.

Here are some of the alternatives I've looked at pretty closely:

- OmniOutliner ($80: $60 macOS + $20 on iOS, for the Pro with attachment support) – Benefits: it has a long history, is regularly updated, and seems like a good match for my requirements. Drawbacks: despite having been updated recently with v5 on macOS and v3 on iOS, the app interface feels dated; more importantly, the way it handles image attachments, with no support for thumbnails, is only marginally better than a link to Imgur.
- OmniFocus ($60: $40 macOS + $20 iOS) – Benefits: cheaper than OmniOutliner, and feels more modern, even in v2 (with v3 coming up soon). Drawbacks: not better than OmniOutliner for images, and I am hesitant to use an app for something it isn't designed for.
- MindNode ($55 - $40 macOS + $15 iOS) – Benefits: fresh UI, thumbnails for images. Drawbacks: after some testing, I am thinking that mind maps are not appropriate for the use I have in mind. For instance, when MindNode shows the result of a search in the outline sidebar, it doesn't show the parent items, so the result is a potentially long list of matching nodes, and the lack of context makes searching through large documents much harder. (Yes, you can click on the item and see where it is in mind map, but with a large mind map, the parents are not easily visible there either.) This is not to criticize MindNode, but to say that mind maps might not be the right tool for the job.

In addition to those, I've considered but quickly eliminated Mindly (looked encouraging for a first version but doesn't seem to be actively developed anymore) and Dynalist (at $96/year, is just too expensive for me).

Finally, another option would be to go with a more traditional note-taking app that isn't an outliner, like Evernote, Bear, or Google Keep. Those generally have good support for images, can handle a large number of notes, have good search and mobile apps. But it would be a shame, as organizing information in a tree structure and working with that tree (fold, focus, search) seems to be the most inline with the way I think.

I'm looking forward to reading any feedback you guys might have!

Alex

Alex of the three, I would only consider OmniOutliner as a best-fit for your requirements.

OmniFocus is not good for outlining. Attachments are iffy.

There might be web-based solutions? Not sure.

Dynalist is very Workflowy-esque, and they support image attachments. You can choose to display images inline or only show when hovering over the image link. I don't think you can view a thumbnail and a full size image, however - the images are always the same size.

There is no good outliner in the mac. The focusing (hoisting) feature specially is very rare.

For my test, Neo used to be one of the best outliners that checks all the features you are asking for (I am not sure about the image thought). But, the app is dead, unfortunately.

Have you considered OneNote?
I am not sure if the sections in Onenote are comparable with the sub-tree you are talking about.

Onenote supports only 4 level embedding though.

Notebook > Section > Page > Subpage.

Paul, I agree, OmniOutliner seems like the best out of the 3 I mentioned. But I still feel somewhat uneasy about the way it shows attachments and the somewhat outdated look of the whole user interface.

Chris, it looks like Dynalist is a great option; its $96/year is just a turn-off, but I should maybe reconsider.

Dellu, I hadn't considered OneNote, as I would put it more in the Evernote, Bear, or Google Keep category. Like you said, it doesn't support infinite nesting, and overall doesn't work like an outliner.

Thank you all for your answers so far!

Also, if I can ask a follow-up question: what do you do for the use case I have a mind? Have you found a good solution or combination of solutions to keep track of notes about notes about books, articles, restaurants, travel plans, people, ideas, recipes, and such?

Alex

Alessandro Vernet wrote:

Have you found a good solution or combination of
solutions to keep track of notes about notes about books, articles,
restaurants, travel plans, people, ideas, recipes, and such?

For personal stuff, about travel, restaurants and like stuff, I used to use DayOne (now, MacJournal). I just tag them. I don't do much organization. I really don't have much problem with this since I usually write less number of notes.

My problem is with my academic notes. I have thousands of them.

I use these apps:
1) Tinderbox
2) Devonthink
3) Keep it
4) Scrivener
5) Curiota

I use tags and saved searches to group notes on a specific topic within Devonthink and Keepit.

I also don't find organizing my notes in outline that simple task. I often use Tinderbox for the task. But, I sometime lose track of the whole organization. Often times, I don't even know where to put a certain note. My inbox gets crowded. It becomes messy. Even if Tinderbox is the best tool for this kind of task, it is still very difficult to come up with a consistent system that could work all the time.

I wish there is an easier way.

Had their license be fair, Atlas Ti would have been the ultimate solution for me--it includes the whole process of reading PDF, writing notes, tagging, mind mapping...everything.
Heck, they have a diabolical licensing system.

OmniOutliner is a well-supported app with an active dev team, and an active support board at https://discourse.omnigroup.com/c/omnioutliner

I bought OO Elements for my Mac but never upgraded to Pro, despite having a need for an app that handled lots of in-line image attachments. I thought Omni's implementation wasn't that great. Last year when Elements/Pro came out I asked them about any limitations (slowdowns, etc) in adding image attachments to individual Pro outlines and the answer was nothing more specific than It Depends.

I never settled on a Mac outliner with the image handling I wanted. For my purposes I am currently outlining in text (using OO Elements, though I'm learning to use TaskPaper) with images references separately in folders. I'm thinking of putting the images in OneNote or Apple's Notes app...

I've been very happy with Outlinely, not least because of its Mac/iOS support, but there are a few irritations. It's a very powerful outliner, however (much better and much faster IMHO than OmniOutliner), with a good search function.

The other outliner worth considering is Cloud Outliner 2. It's a little simplistic, but works pretty well. Not as powerful as Outlinely or OmniOutliner, but fast and efficient.

Todoist, one of the best multiplatform task managers, is also a mean outliner, and worth considering for its sheer flexibility.

I have Cloud Outliner Pro for Mac and iOS and - well, I bought them, and deleted them. Way too basic, slow-scrolling with large outlines, no image attachments (important for this thread), and the choice of only night/day themes with no adjustments is annoyng since I don't like either one.

Good question, Alex. I don't have a single solution for notes, being a restless CRIMPer, but some important ones to answer your question:

Use case / Solution

Book notes / Kindle
Articles / Save a PDF then use either MarginNote, or LiquidText, or Highlights
Restaurants / DayOne
Travel Plans / Usually a folder in a DEVONthink database where I collect all relevant documents for the trip
People / DayOne
Ideas / DayOne for longer notes; OmniFocus for quick capture (e.g., "things to see or do")
Recipes / I do all the cooking here and gave up writing down recipes because new ideas are just a Google search away.
Projects / Usually a combo of DEVONthink (for client documents and my work products), Curio (best graphical thinking tool around), and Tinderbox (for all its power working with text)

Alessandro Vernet wrote:

Also, if I can ask a follow-up question: what do you do for the use case
I have a mind? Have you found a good solution or combination of
solutions to keep track of notes about notes about books, articles,
restaurants, travel plans, people, ideas, recipes, and such?

Alex

Thank you for the feedback, Paul!

Maybe not having a single solution for notes, or even a main solution is the way to go. I find it interesting that you use Day One for a lot more than journaling, and maybe use it more like a replacement for Evernote, Bear, or OneNote. I am curious: what made you go with Day One instead of Evernote or Bear, which I imagine to be more natural choices for general purpose note taking?

And +1 on your comment about recipes being so easy to find online. I’ll keep that in mind, as not taking notes when it isn’t necessary is great way to keep one’s system more manageable!

Alex

Paul Korm wrote:

Good question, Alex. I don't have a single solution for notes, being a
restless CRIMPer, but some important ones to answer your question:

Use case / Solution

Book notes / Kindle
Articles / Save a PDF then use either MarginNote, or LiquidText, or
Highlights
Restaurants / DayOne
Travel Plans / Usually a folder in a DEVONthink database where I collect
all relevant documents for the trip
People / DayOne
Ideas / DayOne for longer notes; OmniFocus for quick capture (e.g.,
"things to see or do")
Recipes / I do all the cooking here and gave up writing down recipes
because new ideas are just a Google search away.
Projects / Usually a combo of DEVONthink (for client documents and my
work products), Curio (best graphical thinking tool around), and
Tinderbox (for all its power working with text)

Alessandro Vernet wrote:
>Also, if I can ask a follow-up question: what do you do for the use
case
>I have a mind? Have you found a good solution or combination of
>solutions to keep track of notes about notes about books, articles,
>restaurants, travel plans, people, ideas, recipes, and such?
>
>Alex

I use the others, but most frequently Day One because it has a pleasantly designed and simple look, has good services for capturing text or images from other applications, and a nice quick-entry mode on macOS and iOS.

Alessandro Vernet wrote:

I am curious: what made you go with Day One instead of
Evernote or Bear, which I imagine to be more natural choices for general
purpose note taking?

checkvist has image attachments and inline thumbnails. It also has many similarities to workflowy, but also much more, and is very keyboardable. It is $39/year for Pro (which is required for attachments). https://checkvist.com/auth/help to see all its features.

As noted, dynalist has images.

notion.so has images and much more.

I know we have other Notecase users here. It does a great job with images. A very flexible two pane outliner with scripts, in active development, and available in Windows, Linux, and the Mac. Also on Android, although I didn't much care for that (haven't looked at it in a while). I drifted away from it when I got an iPad, and can't use it on Chrome, so have drifted over to Dynalist, which I use constantly. Well worth the $96.

Paul Korm wrote:

I use the others, but most frequently Day One because it has a
pleasantly designed and simple look, has good services for capturing
text or images from other applications, and a nice quick-entry mode on
macOS and iOS.

I'm intrigued by your reply. I open Day One 10-15 times a day (on both Mac and iPhone) for entry in a couple of journals, and I occasionally embed images. I like it a lot - strictly for synced journaling - but find it far too restrictive for anything else.

I write long journal posts and when I do a search I'll only be presented with entries that contain the results, with NO WAY TO SEARH INSIDE AN ENTRY. Crazy. I practically begged the devs years ago to implement a better find, even suggesting that they implement Google Chrome-like scrollbar 'ticks' showing where search results are located. Day One also has odd font choices that aren't synced across platforms - Merriweather is on Macs but not anywhere else (and it's way too similar to Georgia anyway). And if I'm going to use Markdown to make lists I might as well do it in Ulysses or IA Writer (or pick your own alternative poison), or make simple lists in Apple Notes with the checklist option (Or Anylist, for which I have a $7.99/yr subscription.) I just can't imagine using Day One for those kinds of things.

Also, I do most of my serious writing on my Mac. But after devs released result of a poll they conducted which found that something like 75% of users primarily use the app with their phones, they've made clear that their focus is on improving the iOS experience. I asked and they have no timeline for keeping feature parity with the iOS app. No word on whether they'l ever offer 'On This Day' on Mac, for example. (Which is a shame because in order to save storage space on my phone I split old entries off into archives which I don't sync to the phone, which means I don't get that feature on my phone now either.)

I hear you. Day One does have its limitations. The two differences in my case is that search within documents is not important for me -- most of what I do is capture & comment, or write journal notes. It's a daybook -- something to go back to in the future and recall particular events or impressions. If I need the notes elsewhere, Day One lives in the Dock with Bear and Tinderbox and other note taking powerhouses, and it's easy to drag notes into other apps. Albeit, without images -- for rendered text and images I export PDFs mainly.

satis wrote:

I'm intrigued by your reply. I open Day One 10-15 times a day (on both
Mac and iPhone) for entry in a couple of journals, and I occasionally
embed images. I like it a lot - strictly for synced journaling - but
find it far too restrictive for anything else.

Ugh. We're 48 hours into Day One's sync having crashed and burned. The villagers are out with pitchforks on Twitter, needling the devs about having ripped out iCloud/Dropbox sync.

I admit it's pretty frustrating to me. I use Day One on both Mac and iOS, in different ways (long-form entries on Mac), and in order not to mess up entries I'm not using the Mac app now, temporarily using IA Writer again, and remembering why I liked it so much. (And making me rethink my yearlong move to Ulysses, for text-only, at least.)

It really does beg the question: why on Earth doesn't Apple get on and optimise iCloud as a sync system? It's still pitiful, especially compared with Dropbox (or our business favourite, AutoTask, formerly known as Soonr).

A solid sync engine is a sine qua non of a functional ecosystem.