Looking for a software:

Usual Outliner software works whereby nodes & sub-nodes are in the left pane column as a tree & data for each selected node/sub-node appear in the right editor pane.

What I'm looking for is:

# Nodes are in left pane column (usual outliner)

# Sub-nodes are in 2nd column (so clicking the node in first column refreshes 2nd column & shows sub-nodes for the highlighted/clicked node in first column

# Usual editor window: 3rd column shows the data content editor for the selected sub-node or for root-level node (if it has no sub-node)

So basically the first two columns are Nodes & Sub-nodes. The third column is the data in an editor window column.

Bonus would be if:

+ Can have even more columns popping up if existing: sub-sub-node as 3rd column & data editor shifts to 4th column, ie: right-most column

+ Any tags/notes window pane, a bonus, like Scrivener metadata on the right side

But a basic two column structure on the left plus data editor on the right would do.

I think it would have great potential. Everyone is just copying the tree outline on the left & data editor on the right.

In fact the desired structure is pretty much an expanding relational database of tables as a data format. Simply needing to be plugged into an interface.

I want it to be:

For Windows
Not subscription based
Not someone else's cloud. Personal cloud is OK. But should work offline too.

I vaguely remember similar stuff: expanding columns as structure plus selected data showing up but can't put my finger on it. I think this new dynamic structure interface would have great potential and market.

The nearest thing I remember is not exactly the above spec. Anyone seen anything like the above? Multi columns as node & sub-node structure + editor for data on the right, for Windows?

washere wrote:

# Nodes are in left pane column (usual outliner)

# Sub-nodes are in 2nd column (so clicking the node in first column
refreshes 2nd column & shows sub-nodes for the highlighted/clicked node
in first column

This would suggest that the first column is just an inert list and nothing happens there, since to even see if there are additional sub-items, one would need to look into the second column. This would seem redundant from a design perspective, so maybe that's why there aren't many such implementations.

This does remind me of the way Natara Bonsai works, but the first column is only going to be a list of separate files, so it is kind of an inert pane otherwise (though the folders provide another level of hierarchy).

Outline Manager > Outline > Notes (which can be displayed on the right or below):

http://web.archive.org/web/20110527214033im_/http://www.natara.com:80/Bonsai/ScreenShots/DTOutlineView.jpg

You could take a look at UltraRecall as well, which has a few display options for its various fields:

https://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/screenshots.html

RightNote added an outline node type to the Pro version that may do what you are looking for. It's barely mentioned on the website (http://www.bauerapps.com/rightnote but here's a screenshot from the developer (Rael):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4ds7h6qjeirkwi/RightNote-outline.png

The leftmost column is the normal node tree. The node "Current" is an outline node (actually a TaskList node - same thing, but has checkboxes). He basically cobbled together the outline/tasklist node feature by allowing the Node Tree (in column 1) to also be a node. The outline in column 2 has the same features/limitations as tree in column 1, except it can't also have outline nodes (so only level). Other nodes type are RichView, source code (syntax highlighting), spreadsheet. It also has tags and sync capabilities with Evernote.

"so only level" -> "so only one level"

Thanks DrAndus,

The left column is not redundant. It can grow. The problem, or rather the alternative desired interface is this: when we have a tree structure in the left, as the project grows one has to:

not all tree fits in view
Expand / collapse branches constantly to see target
Lots of scrolling up & down
etc etc

With the hierarchical multi columns, can view & function faster & also in a different way. It's a different structural view too.

Regarding Bonsai, the outline manager could be used as a top level root nodes titles. Good idea. I love that old software.

Haven't played with Total Recall for a while, will check out layout configurations, see what happens. Another good idea.

Thanks gunars,

I'd seen the outline feature when he added it some months ago. Yes he's got tags too which work great. I chopped up my phone notes (with a little free software last year to recognize separators) into hundreds of little notes. And my old copy of Rightnote blew away the competition, by how fast & well it searched tags.

I'd forgotten about the outline feature he added. It might well do the trick. In fact with this double barrel structure columns, there is a lot I can do, a lot. For a start, create some ready to go genetic writing templates. Time to get the new pro version probably:

http://www.bauerapps.com/rightnote-version-comparisons/

Thanks again for the heads up, great tip.

Any other suggestions welcome.

This is very like the new software previously discussed on the forum: Indigrid at https://innovationdilation.com/ But instead of a structured display liited to level, you can add the views you want on the same screen.

washere wrote:

Looking for a software: (...)
# Nodes are in left pane column (usual outliner)
# Sub-nodes are in 2nd column (so clicking the node in first column refreshes 2nd column & shows sub-nodes for the highlighted/clicked node in first column
3rd column shows the data content editor for the selected sub-node or for root-level node (if it has no sub-node)

Basically, a 2-level Miller Column outliner with rich text pane...

Recently, I explored the possibility of a simpler (and totally free) version of InfoQube which would be Miller Column based (with rich text pane), so it should fit the bill as far as what you're looking for.

Pierre

Thanks jaslar,

I've been following indigrid developments, let's hope it keeps improving.



Thanks Pierre,

I'm sure many are looking forward to use it when you release it.

Searching Pierre mentioning Miller columns gives:

http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/5296/0/so-someday-around-1997-i-re-invented-miller-columns

Bonsai Natara outline manager nodes indeed can be utilized as an additional column to the left. But it is just a flat level and not very good looking. Thanks Dr Andus.

But settled on of my old top faves RightNote, the recent Pro. With it's new Outliner feature which I had been tempted by before Christmas but completely forgotten about it's dual columns layout. Thanks very much to gunars for saving my bacon.

Theoretically you could collapse the whole data structure into one tree. Instead of dual column trees.

I have been experimenting with creating new templates. BUT as I suspected there are huge benefits to having 2 tree columns, where the 1st is ultimately the parent of the 2nd. I can now see in my templates experiments, the potential benefits of this alternative methodology for faster creativity has barely been scratched on the surface IMHO.

Why and how? That's another story.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

Ginkgo?

Moo.do *should* do this but doesn't seem to. Seems like a very obvious application of the moo.do UI model.

jaslar wrote:

This is very like the new software previously discussed on the forum:
Indigrid at https://innovationdilation.com/ But instead of a structured
display liited to level, you can add the views you want on the same
screen.

Man, how did I miss this? Inidgrid is truly lovely. Too bad it's Windows-only and without sync. I can't live with apps that are not accessible on all my devices anymore - it's a minimum requirement for me. Yeah, I could probably make this work on multiple Windows machines with dropbox sync, but that still leaves out ios and android.

Pierre, I don't really understand what a "Miller Column" is, but PLEASE consider releasing a version of Infoqube that is focused just on outlining, with the HTML panel as well, without all the calendar and gantt chart and other bells and whistles.

I very much want to convert over from Ecco for daily use, but I find the "complexity" of the full program overwhelming.

I really just want to outline, with columns, and with that right-hand rich-text panel.

I would be more than happy to help test such a variation!

I second cicerosc. Why bolt on complexity that so few users likely want or need, and then trumpet the software as having those "features"?

I'm still not entirely sure what a "Miller column" is, or why I'd want it; maybe it's similar to a very useful feature in SublimeText called New View into File? This opens a second editor window (you could have a third, even a fourth) with a duplicate of the original file that can be scrolled independently. Changes made in the new file appear in the original, and vice-versa. Maybe a "Miller column" is New View into *Outline*? I sort of doubt it, but that would be useful - especially if it were integrated, along with a notes pane, good export options, and nothing else, into dead-simple outliner software like tkOutline.

If SublimeText had a good outliner component (there's a plugin, but it doesn't work well), it would meet virtually all of my needs.

dan7000 wrote:

Ginkgo?

Moo.do *should* do this but doesn't seem to. Seems like a very obvious
application of the moo.do UI model.

Like I said in OP:

I want it to be:

For Windows
Not subscription based
Not someone else’s cloud. Personal cloud is OK. But should work offline too.

Ginkgo has an offline in beta though, been waiting for the final v2. But the blocks in it are too large.
With the usual tree-outliner node sizes, a lot more items can seen at once than Ginkgo.
Ditto other usual tree interface elements missing not to mention other needed features you'd find in a heavyweight tree-ware.

I've always liked Ginkgo though. It is sort of Miller columns.
I used ftp/email in my first job & remember when I told colleagues about the first web browser.
They all said it will never catch on. I knew they were wrong.

You know your outliners & interface.
Carry on soldier, hehe :)

washere wrote:

Ginkgo has an offline in beta though, been waiting for the final v2. But
the blocks in it are too large.
With the usual tree-outliner node sizes, a lot more items can seen at
once than Ginkgo.
Ditto other usual tree interface elements missing not to mention other
needed features you'd find in a heavyweight tree-ware.

Totally agree. According to my emails with the developer, Ginkgo is going to fix this issue by coming out with collapsable blocks - so you just see the first line until you click a "more" icon. Optional setting, I presume. I have already added this to my Ginkgo using some convoluted markdown which I will send you if you want, but it will be very nice when they add this as a regular feature. Then you can have the typical 1-line outliner nodes OR see a full block of text based on what you are doing. Hopefully will have something like "collapse all" and "expand all" options -- per row settings would be ideal.

The convoluted markdown sounds very intriguing! Please do send it, or post it somewhere downloadable.

Thanks very much!
Bill

Totally agree. According to my emails with the developer, Ginkgo is
going to fix this issue by coming out with collapsable blocks - so you
just see the first line until you click a "more" icon. Optional setting,
I presume. I have already added this to my Ginkgo using some convoluted
markdown which I will send you if you want, but it will be very nice
when they add this as a regular feature. Then you can have the typical
1-line outliner nodes OR see a full block of text based on what you are
doing. Hopefully will have something like "collapse all" and "expand
all" options -- per row settings would be ideal.

That sounds good. He can do dual mode, for as is look plus more detailed interface.

You can paste your config in:

https://pastebin.com/

And just press create pastecode button and post the generated url here so mad about and other Ginkgo users can benefit too. No need to register on the site.

His general approach has great potential.

dan7000 wrote:

Ginkgo is going to fix this issue by coming out with collapsable blocks - so
you just see the first line until you click a “more” icon.

Great. Nice to see the UI advance. But the app (I registered the desktop app, currently at 0.89) needs some other priority work done first, or at least fast. Like search.

I know there's CSS hacking/templates for the web version but text font/size/color/background color should be available, at least on the desktop apps (and a night mode would be nice). Preferences should have checkboxes to implement macOS spellcheck and/or correct while typing, smart substitutions (eg quotes, dashes), etc. Less important additions that would be nice to see might include auto-backups, password locks, doc stats in footer, some printing control, etc

Here is the markdown to do this - it's simple.


Click to expand
whatever


Can't take credit for this - it is from the Ginkgo community see here: https://github.com/dear-github/dear-github/issues/166\

Oops I guess I can't post markdown code here because the forum supports markdown :)

But you can go to the link I posted to see the actual code.

https://pastebin.com/Ewf6mD9f

The only code there is "whatever".

washere wrote:

https://pastebin.com/Ewf6mD9f

bobmclain wrote:

The only code there is "whatever".

Hi Bob,

Washere was perhaps a bit concise in his comment, but what he and dan7000 were showing is how to use Markdown to have expand / collapse text in Gingko and other Markdown aware apps / web sites.

HTH !


Pierre
IQ Designer
http://www.infoqube.biz