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Celtx -- Anyone aware of this program?
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Posted by Dr Andus
Oct 17, 2012 at 10:59 PM
Alexander Deliyannis wrote:
>Dr Andus wrote:
>>[Outline 4D is] part of a very small club of
>>outliners that can do
>inline notes (UV Outliner, Inspiration and ??), so it might be
>>good for adding some
>flesh onto an initial outline developed in a more basic outliner
>>(perhaps even
>imported as RTF).
>
>Probably the most notorious such software is Notemap
>http://www.casesoft.com/notemap/index.asp It’s no longer developed, but it’s
>stable as far as I know, though I have not tried it under Windows 7. I believe Cassius has
>had a nasty experience with Notemap using note text, so regular backing up is strongly
>recommended.
>
>Another software that can handle big chunks of text and complex
>hierarchies is Maxthink http://www.maxthink.org Like Brainstorm, its roots are in
>DOS and this shows a bit. It defaults to a two level view like Brainstorm’s but can show
>more if you want it to. It does not support clones (namesakes) but it does have many ways
>to reorganise entries, making it too a powerful tool for bringing order to chaotic
>notes. One of its strong points is the very good export to Word.
>
>Disclaimer: I’m
>posting the info above mostly for reference.
I’m not sure if your disclaimer would stand up in a court of law… Your advice has triggered my CRIMP condition and you have caused me to buy an Outline 4D licence. See you in court!
Just kidding :) Thanks very much for the recommendations. I tried out all three of the above. I did like Notemap a lot. It’s crazy there aren’t more software like it. I’m very happy with Bonsai for the initial stages of outlining, but Notemap would fill the gap between the initial outline, the sentence outline, and the final draft. Sadly, I’ve been scared away by this thread:
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/1136/0/again-with-respect-to-notemap
As for Maxthink, it just baffled me… I know people have spoken of it very highly on this forum, so I’m sure it must have some great features, but my initial experience didn’t encourage me to spend more time with it.
In the end I settled on StoryView 2.0/Outline 4D. I kind of fell in love with it. I hope it’s not going to crash on me halfway through my draft, but I’m excited to start working with it.
Oh, yeah, I also tried Inspiration 9, again (the n+1th time). I’ve tried my best but I just can’t get myself to like that software. I know it ranked highly in Steve’s review but after Bonsai Inspiration feels sluggish and awkward to use for me.
Does anyone actually know how much a Notemap license costs these days (just out of curiosity)?
Posted by Dr Andus
Oct 18, 2012 at 12:01 AM
BTW, one arcane benefit of owning both StoryView 2.0 and Outline 4D (which are almost exactly the same) is that you are able to run two instances of the software (though not of the same file), which is not possible, if you only own one or the other.
Posted by Dr Andus
Oct 18, 2012 at 12:18 PM
One unusual feature of StoryView/Outline 4D is that you can indent or move around outline items irrespective of their place in the hierarchy and independently from their parents or their children. E.g. you can have a level 1 parent with a level 4 child next or you can just move the level 1 parent, and none of its children will move with it. (You can get around this behaviour by selecting several items and then they can be moved or indented as a group).
I don’t quite know what all the benefits of this feature are yet but it seems to break the basic definition of what an outline or outliner is (i.e. having dependent parents and children). I suppose it allows you to structure an outline without having to think through all the necessary hierarchical relationships, which is probably better for brainstorming, concept development and creativity.
Posted by Alexander Deliyannis
Oct 18, 2012 at 01:27 PM
Dr Andus wrote:
>One unusual feature of StoryView/Outline 4D is that you can indent or move around
>outline items irrespective of their place in the hierarchy and independently from
>their parents or their children.
You can do that in MS Word as well. I don’t know if there’s a benefit to it, for me it breaks down the whole notion of structure. But it’s been like that for ages, so I imagine that many people are used to working like that. They would probably find a ‘classic’ outliner too restrictive.
Posted by Dr Andus
Oct 20, 2012 at 11:48 AM
Dr Andus wrote:
>BTW, one arcane benefit of owning both StoryView 2.0 and Outline 4D (which are almost
>exactly the same) is that you are able to run two instances of the software (though not
>of the same file), which is not possible, if you only own one or the other.
It turns out you can in fact view the same file in both outline view and timeline (index card corkboard) view simultaneously in Outline 4D alone. With the extended desktop feature in Windows it means you can have your outline open in one monitor, and the corresponding “index cards” view open in a second monitor, with changes updated on both simultaneously.
This gives you two different simultaneous visualisations of your hierarchy: 1) in the traditional outline list form, and 2) as a top-down arrangement of index cards, with each outline item represented by a card, starting with level 1 item on the top. All outline items are represented in the corkboard, so none are hidden in stacks, as they are in SuperNoteCard or Scrivener (though if you have too many, they might only be represented by a sliver of a card, to fit them all in).
Can any other outliner do this, i.e. present a simultaneous view of both the linear outline and a spatial representation of all items (not just top level)? I can only think of ConnectedText’s Navigator window, but it can only be set up to emulate a two-pane outliner, while Outline 4D is a single-pane outliner (which I prefer for my current task).