EN 3 Changes and a Market Overview
Started by Daly de Gagne
on 5/6/2008
Daly de Gagne
5/6/2008 11:07 pm
I can't recall whether we had much talk here about EverNote 3 beta and the developer's plan to create a program that would integrate hardware and web, and truly be able to function as an external brain wherever one was.
There are big fears -- groundless or not I do not know -- that EN 2.2 which saw the product as a pretty sound top of the field web clipper, and information manager may no longer be supported, that functionality will be lost, and people who do not wish to be will find themselves having to store data on the web.
I think this may be worth talking about for a few reasons, because of changes we've seen in the field and what it means to us users:
* I am declaring ADM as deader than a doornail and no longer on the market until either Ed or Arne have the courtesy to let their form loyal and trusted testers know to the contrary. For all we know, their Chinese dealings may have earned them so much they don't need us, or got them into so much trouble they don't have time for us.
* MDE Infohandler, once one of my favourite tools for the way it handled categories, took a major paradigm shift in design that many people hate, and many of us cannot quite understand. I suspect, given the lack of discussion on the list that it could be in a tough position keeping market.
* UltraRecall has great -- though slow and not as good as Evernote's -- capabilities as a web clipper, plus metadata features and other ways of massaging information. A strong player, and one that showed the ability to shift in mid stream when user pressure resulted in a hoist feature. Way to go Kinook!
* MyInfo's developed its metadata capability, created an approach to columns that is more intuitive, though less flexible than UR's, but in spite of user requests did little to improve web clip capability and did not agree to develop hoist.
*Whizfolders markets itself as a writer's program, and a note-taker, and has developed a sophistication over the years with keywords, tehmplates, and now in its last version, the ability to hoist and to appear as one-pane outliner.
*Whizfolders and EN have a feature I find very useful, and that is to be able to open a separate window so that two sets of material may be seen side by side. This is helpful when writing.
* InfoSelect has made a few attempts to come into the modern edge with smart folders and a half-hearted hoisting mechanism which essentially involved saving the Selector in different configurations. But it is still as quirky as hell, and recent speculation on the group was Yuri is running the show pretty much by himself. Don't look for much in the future from IS, except that it will go the way of Infohandler and ADM as its users -- often a well brainwashed group who are unaware of the power available in the competitor's products -- realize it feels good to stop hitting your head against the wall and find software that does at least 90 percent of what it is designed to do.
* Zoot has the most raw potential of any of the products -- but the question is whether the Admiral will be able to out maneuver the cigarette boats zooming around in Floridian waters. He has the best software design capabilities of anyone that I have ever seen -- but the reality is that he may have to start replacing sail power with horsepower, and get a couple 2500 HP inboard diesels and a power boat large enough to put some other programmers.
* SQL Notes has risen rapidly over the last years from ECCOs ashes, following a squabble among ECCO freaks that resembled a bunch of Trotskyist tendencies fighting it out at common front unity rally. SQL Notes looks impressive, and may end up doing both what the old ECCO did (which it somewhat resembles in appearance), and a whole pile more related to metadatam manipulating information, storing information, itself.
* Some of us like these program as well because they let us bring different resources together. Most the programs mentioned already let you do, to set up project files or a dashboard of sorts. In addition to the outline type programs, there`s Syncon IDEA!, which hasn`t been updated for a few years but is pretty elegant if not attractive, and OMEA Pro, both designed to bring everything together. Mindmap programs can be set up to those functions. Two mindmap variations, Topicscape and Personal Brain have taken some interesting approaches, but neither turn me on completely.
Treepad is an old standby, but Henk for some reason turned his back on information management, and went more for web site application of the product -- it was too bad because he was one of the first to have a real nice approach to use of icons, recognition of the need for word processing capability, etc. His Treepad group used to be active, but now it is pretty dead.
* I do not know enough about MyBase to say anything, except that I used it some years ago, before going to TreePad, found the developer helpful, and know from the reports of at least one of our members that it seems like a strong product with a responsive developer.
* GemX`s outliner program and PIM both seem to be underwhelming although they have all the eye candy one might expect to find in a Dutch confectionary.
I don`t know what I left out by way of an overview.
My hope is that Evernote doesn`t screw itself, and that if there are people here who are concerned they might, that they ought to hit the forums.
Daly
PS And let us know of any Arne or Eric sightings.
There are big fears -- groundless or not I do not know -- that EN 2.2 which saw the product as a pretty sound top of the field web clipper, and information manager may no longer be supported, that functionality will be lost, and people who do not wish to be will find themselves having to store data on the web.
I think this may be worth talking about for a few reasons, because of changes we've seen in the field and what it means to us users:
* I am declaring ADM as deader than a doornail and no longer on the market until either Ed or Arne have the courtesy to let their form loyal and trusted testers know to the contrary. For all we know, their Chinese dealings may have earned them so much they don't need us, or got them into so much trouble they don't have time for us.
* MDE Infohandler, once one of my favourite tools for the way it handled categories, took a major paradigm shift in design that many people hate, and many of us cannot quite understand. I suspect, given the lack of discussion on the list that it could be in a tough position keeping market.
* UltraRecall has great -- though slow and not as good as Evernote's -- capabilities as a web clipper, plus metadata features and other ways of massaging information. A strong player, and one that showed the ability to shift in mid stream when user pressure resulted in a hoist feature. Way to go Kinook!
* MyInfo's developed its metadata capability, created an approach to columns that is more intuitive, though less flexible than UR's, but in spite of user requests did little to improve web clip capability and did not agree to develop hoist.
*Whizfolders markets itself as a writer's program, and a note-taker, and has developed a sophistication over the years with keywords, tehmplates, and now in its last version, the ability to hoist and to appear as one-pane outliner.
*Whizfolders and EN have a feature I find very useful, and that is to be able to open a separate window so that two sets of material may be seen side by side. This is helpful when writing.
* InfoSelect has made a few attempts to come into the modern edge with smart folders and a half-hearted hoisting mechanism which essentially involved saving the Selector in different configurations. But it is still as quirky as hell, and recent speculation on the group was Yuri is running the show pretty much by himself. Don't look for much in the future from IS, except that it will go the way of Infohandler and ADM as its users -- often a well brainwashed group who are unaware of the power available in the competitor's products -- realize it feels good to stop hitting your head against the wall and find software that does at least 90 percent of what it is designed to do.
* Zoot has the most raw potential of any of the products -- but the question is whether the Admiral will be able to out maneuver the cigarette boats zooming around in Floridian waters. He has the best software design capabilities of anyone that I have ever seen -- but the reality is that he may have to start replacing sail power with horsepower, and get a couple 2500 HP inboard diesels and a power boat large enough to put some other programmers.
* SQL Notes has risen rapidly over the last years from ECCOs ashes, following a squabble among ECCO freaks that resembled a bunch of Trotskyist tendencies fighting it out at common front unity rally. SQL Notes looks impressive, and may end up doing both what the old ECCO did (which it somewhat resembles in appearance), and a whole pile more related to metadatam manipulating information, storing information, itself.
* Some of us like these program as well because they let us bring different resources together. Most the programs mentioned already let you do, to set up project files or a dashboard of sorts. In addition to the outline type programs, there`s Syncon IDEA!, which hasn`t been updated for a few years but is pretty elegant if not attractive, and OMEA Pro, both designed to bring everything together. Mindmap programs can be set up to those functions. Two mindmap variations, Topicscape and Personal Brain have taken some interesting approaches, but neither turn me on completely.
Treepad is an old standby, but Henk for some reason turned his back on information management, and went more for web site application of the product -- it was too bad because he was one of the first to have a real nice approach to use of icons, recognition of the need for word processing capability, etc. His Treepad group used to be active, but now it is pretty dead.
* I do not know enough about MyBase to say anything, except that I used it some years ago, before going to TreePad, found the developer helpful, and know from the reports of at least one of our members that it seems like a strong product with a responsive developer.
* GemX`s outliner program and PIM both seem to be underwhelming although they have all the eye candy one might expect to find in a Dutch confectionary.
I don`t know what I left out by way of an overview.
My hope is that Evernote doesn`t screw itself, and that if there are people here who are concerned they might, that they ought to hit the forums.
Daly
PS And let us know of any Arne or Eric sightings.
Thomas
5/7/2008 1:20 am
That's a really nice summary.
The only you didn't mention that I could think of right away is InfoRecall. (Last time I used it was over 10 years ago.)
Just few notes:
As for MyInfo, it was more like that they were reluctant to implement hoist in current version, due to it being too hard to implement. Which I can understand. The way they have implemented the tree control, from what I could understood, differs from most other products and is non-standard, that might be a factor as well.
Treepad group is IMHO dead because it's on moderation, and it's not much supported - Henk seems to prefer other communication channels, doesn't promote the group much and isn't actively participating except answering the questions.
I actually liked GemX products, except the bugs and the way of their communication and handling loyal users. Do-Organizer while buggy and weak in some aspects, had great potential.
Usually toilet paper works for me, but couldn't figure it out with Evernote. It was the only thing that didnt' work for me with EN, unfortunately substantial one.
The only you didn't mention that I could think of right away is InfoRecall. (Last time I used it was over 10 years ago.)
Just few notes:
As for MyInfo, it was more like that they were reluctant to implement hoist in current version, due to it being too hard to implement. Which I can understand. The way they have implemented the tree control, from what I could understood, differs from most other products and is non-standard, that might be a factor as well.
Treepad group is IMHO dead because it's on moderation, and it's not much supported - Henk seems to prefer other communication channels, doesn't promote the group much and isn't actively participating except answering the questions.
I actually liked GemX products, except the bugs and the way of their communication and handling loyal users. Do-Organizer while buggy and weak in some aspects, had great potential.
Usually toilet paper works for me, but couldn't figure it out with Evernote. It was the only thing that didnt' work for me with EN, unfortunately substantial one.
Cassius
5/7/2008 1:24 am
Daly said, "... often a well brainwashed group who are unaware of the power available in the competitor’s products."
One should remember that many of such users have so much invested/saved in their current PIMs that they are loath to change.
I find it no longer possible to consider Zoot as viable. I purchased it many years ago (Ver 3, I believe) and found it so limiting that I never used it beyond testing it. It has lagged so far behind everything else that it can only be pitied. As far as I can tell, except for Outlook compatibility,GV can do virtually everything Zoot can do and a lot more.
-c
One should remember that many of such users have so much invested/saved in their current PIMs that they are loath to change.
I find it no longer possible to consider Zoot as viable. I purchased it many years ago (Ver 3, I believe) and found it so limiting that I never used it beyond testing it. It has lagged so far behind everything else that it can only be pitied. As far as I can tell, except for Outlook compatibility,GV can do virtually everything Zoot can do and a lot more.
-c
Dominik Holenstein
5/7/2008 5:36 am
Daly,
Thank for your great market overview!
Just my 2cents:
When I look at development speed, communciation, listening and bug fixing then I end up with these three applications:
- UltraRecall
- Whizfolders Pro (or Deluxe)
- SQLNotes
Personally, despite some CRIMP attacks, I always end up in in using UltraRecall. I don't love it, I like it. And sometimes I miss ADM.
Dominik
Thank for your great market overview!
Just my 2cents:
When I look at development speed, communciation, listening and bug fixing then I end up with these three applications:
- UltraRecall
- Whizfolders Pro (or Deluxe)
- SQLNotes
Personally, despite some CRIMP attacks, I always end up in in using UltraRecall. I don't love it, I like it. And sometimes I miss ADM.
Dominik
Stephen Zeoli
5/7/2008 2:08 pm
Daly,
A few notable applications you left off your list:
* OneNote is quite powerful, though it is quite different than most of the information managers discussed here. It has the support of the titan behind it. I believe one reason for EverNote's change in direction is that version 2.2 was competing directly with ON... and even though EN was cheaper (in fact free), it appears to have been losing that battle. The biggest issue with ON is that it still does not play as well with its own siblings (Word, Excel) as it could.
* The Brain... which I do not know much about... Is it an information manager or a mind mapper?
* Personal Knowbase... I know it doesn't have much of a following on this forum, but it has always appealed to me in its simplicity. A keyword based note card system... a stripped down version of InfoHandler. Still has a loyal following.
And as long as you're mentioning Treepad, we should probably mention the other long-in-the-tooth two-pane outliners: Jot+, ActionOutliner, Maple and BlackHole Organizer. These were exciting when they first came out six or seven years ago, but now have been passed by. I must say, however, that I still use Treepad Lite fairly often. It is quick and easy to use, is a single executable file (so can be used from a USB drive), and the lack of bells and whistles is just right for some jobs.
Steve Z.
A few notable applications you left off your list:
* OneNote is quite powerful, though it is quite different than most of the information managers discussed here. It has the support of the titan behind it. I believe one reason for EverNote's change in direction is that version 2.2 was competing directly with ON... and even though EN was cheaper (in fact free), it appears to have been losing that battle. The biggest issue with ON is that it still does not play as well with its own siblings (Word, Excel) as it could.
* The Brain... which I do not know much about... Is it an information manager or a mind mapper?
* Personal Knowbase... I know it doesn't have much of a following on this forum, but it has always appealed to me in its simplicity. A keyword based note card system... a stripped down version of InfoHandler. Still has a loyal following.
And as long as you're mentioning Treepad, we should probably mention the other long-in-the-tooth two-pane outliners: Jot+, ActionOutliner, Maple and BlackHole Organizer. These were exciting when they first came out six or seven years ago, but now have been passed by. I must say, however, that I still use Treepad Lite fairly often. It is quick and easy to use, is a single executable file (so can be used from a USB drive), and the lack of bells and whistles is just right for some jobs.
Steve Z.
dan7000
5/7/2008 7:31 pm
re EN 3.0
I've been using the 3.0 beta a lot lately, really trying to give it a fair shake. I am actually quite optimistic about the concept but I don't think it's executed well enough yet, in 3 respects: web integration, clipping, rich formatting, and data storage.
Web Integration:
I really like this idea. Daly, you say that some people don't like the idea of storing data on the web. But that's not really what EN3 does. It stores data on the web and the desktop, and allows syncing between them. Or you can store only on the desktop and turn sync off.
I like the idea because I use multiple machines and I want my notes everywhere, and this looks like a painless way to do it.
Also, I like it because I'm a CRIMPer and this is a shiny new idea that nobody else is trying :)
Clipping:
Daly mentions that EN2.2 was one of the best web clippers available. I never used it except for a brief trial, so I don't know about 2.2, but 3.0 is terrible. Formatting from clipped pages is totally destroyed in 3.0. Moreover, this is true for all types of copied and pasted data - not just from the web. For instance, if I copy from a Word doc and paste into 3.0, the formatting from the Word doc is likely to be messed up. Same thing with using the send to EN button in Outlook.
Rich Note Formatting:
This area is obviously related to the richness of clipping, and thus it is also terrible. No support for tables in a note. Need I say more?
Data Storage:
By "data storage" I mean types of data you can keep in the program. In ADM and OneNote I can drag an entire file into the program and it's stored there. Or I can paste a picture into a note, or insert a picture file. Some other programs have full OLE/ActiveX support, so you can paste many types of rich data into a document and edit in-place. For instance, I can insert an Excel table into Word and then edit the excel table in-place in the word document using Excel's own editing code. (Why can't OneNote do that?)
EN allows me to paste a very limited set of non-text data into a note, and does not allow me to store a whole file in a note. You can't even insert common picture file types.
This feature is the deal-killer for me. The thing that would make EN's web/desktop integration really cool and worthwhile would be if I could use it as a platform for all of my work. But it doesn't help me to have my notes about a particular document on 2 machines, if the document itself is only available on 1 machine.
I've been using the 3.0 beta a lot lately, really trying to give it a fair shake. I am actually quite optimistic about the concept but I don't think it's executed well enough yet, in 3 respects: web integration, clipping, rich formatting, and data storage.
Web Integration:
I really like this idea. Daly, you say that some people don't like the idea of storing data on the web. But that's not really what EN3 does. It stores data on the web and the desktop, and allows syncing between them. Or you can store only on the desktop and turn sync off.
I like the idea because I use multiple machines and I want my notes everywhere, and this looks like a painless way to do it.
Also, I like it because I'm a CRIMPer and this is a shiny new idea that nobody else is trying :)
Clipping:
Daly mentions that EN2.2 was one of the best web clippers available. I never used it except for a brief trial, so I don't know about 2.2, but 3.0 is terrible. Formatting from clipped pages is totally destroyed in 3.0. Moreover, this is true for all types of copied and pasted data - not just from the web. For instance, if I copy from a Word doc and paste into 3.0, the formatting from the Word doc is likely to be messed up. Same thing with using the send to EN button in Outlook.
Rich Note Formatting:
This area is obviously related to the richness of clipping, and thus it is also terrible. No support for tables in a note. Need I say more?
Data Storage:
By "data storage" I mean types of data you can keep in the program. In ADM and OneNote I can drag an entire file into the program and it's stored there. Or I can paste a picture into a note, or insert a picture file. Some other programs have full OLE/ActiveX support, so you can paste many types of rich data into a document and edit in-place. For instance, I can insert an Excel table into Word and then edit the excel table in-place in the word document using Excel's own editing code. (Why can't OneNote do that?)
EN allows me to paste a very limited set of non-text data into a note, and does not allow me to store a whole file in a note. You can't even insert common picture file types.
This feature is the deal-killer for me. The thing that would make EN's web/desktop integration really cool and worthwhile would be if I could use it as a platform for all of my work. But it doesn't help me to have my notes about a particular document on 2 machines, if the document itself is only available on 1 machine.
Daly de Gagne
5/8/2008 1:30 am
Your note pormpted me to get off my backside and try the ne EN3.
So far, with a minimum of testing, I am impressed.
I thought it did a reasonable job with the complex page referred to in a more recent topic here comparing 100 plus GTD applications.
EN 2.2 did a better job, but I think both did well considering all the data in the page. I am not against the notion of storing on the web, as long as I can synch with my computer=based file, and apparently that is doable.
I am going to import one of my smaller EN2.2 files and see how that goes.
Daly
dan7000 wrote:
So far, with a minimum of testing, I am impressed.
I thought it did a reasonable job with the complex page referred to in a more recent topic here comparing 100 plus GTD applications.
EN 2.2 did a better job, but I think both did well considering all the data in the page. I am not against the notion of storing on the web, as long as I can synch with my computer=based file, and apparently that is doable.
I am going to import one of my smaller EN2.2 files and see how that goes.
Daly
dan7000 wrote:
re EN 3.0
I've been using the 3.0 beta a lot lately, really trying to give it a fair
shake. I am actually quite optimistic about the concept but I don't think it's
executed well enough yet, in 3 respects: web integration, clipping, rich
formatting, and data storage.
Web Integration:
I really like this idea. Daly, you
say that some people don't like the idea of storing data on the web. But that's not
really what EN3 does. It stores data on the web and the desktop, and allows syncing
between them. Or you can store only on the desktop and turn sync off.
I like the idea
because I use multiple machines and I want my notes everywhere, and this looks like a
painless way to do it.
Also, I like it because I'm a CRIMPer and this is a shiny new idea
that nobody else is trying :)
Clipping:
Daly mentions that EN2.2 was one of the best
web clippers available. I never used it except for a brief trial, so I don't know about
2.2, but 3.0 is terrible. Formatting from clipped pages is totally destroyed in 3.0.
Moreover, this is true for all types of copied and pasted data - not just from the web.
For instance, if I copy from a Word doc and paste into 3.0, the formatting from the Word
doc is likely to be messed up. Same thing with using the send to EN button in Outlook.
Rich Note Formatting:
This area is obviously related to the richness of clipping,
and thus it is also terrible. No support for tables in a note. Need I say more?
Data
Storage:
By "data storage" I mean types of data you can keep in the program. In ADM and
OneNote I can drag an entire file into the program and it's stored there. Or I can paste a
picture into a note, or insert a picture file. Some other programs have full
OLE/ActiveX support, so you can paste many types of rich data into a document and edit
in-place. For instance, I can insert an Excel table into Word and then edit the excel
table in-place in the word document using Excel's own editing code. (Why can't
OneNote do that?)
EN allows me to paste a very limited set of non-text data into a note,
and does not allow me to store a whole file in a note. You can't even insert common
picture file types.
This feature is the deal-killer for me. The thing that would make
EN's web/desktop integration really cool and worthwhile would be if I could use it as a
platform for all of my work. But it doesn't help me to have my notes about a particular
document on 2 machines, if the document itself is only available on 1 machine.
Daly de Gagne
5/8/2008 1:46 am
EN3 update: I just imported all of my EN2.2 notes into EN3.
As far as I can see, it went perfectly.
I have not discovered how to get a list view yet on EN3, but am sure there must be one -- or if there isn't one now, there will be later, because EN has indicated some 2.2 features may not show up right away.
I think the EN developers have been very clever in seeing how the product can be used in different ways.
For example, I can email a clip to my EN web file if I am on someone else's computer, and then synch it to my computer based EN file after.At a time when a lot of web2 apps were starting to look the same, EN3 may be a welcome change.
Daly
As far as I can see, it went perfectly.
I have not discovered how to get a list view yet on EN3, but am sure there must be one -- or if there isn't one now, there will be later, because EN has indicated some 2.2 features may not show up right away.
I think the EN developers have been very clever in seeing how the product can be used in different ways.
For example, I can email a clip to my EN web file if I am on someone else's computer, and then synch it to my computer based EN file after.At a time when a lot of web2 apps were starting to look the same, EN3 may be a welcome change.
Daly
dan7000
5/8/2008 4:28 pm
Daly de Gagne wrote:
...>For example, I can
email a clip to my EN web file if I am on someone else's computer, and then synch it to my
computer based EN file after.At a time when a lot of web2 apps were starting to look the
same, EN3 may be a welcome change.
Yeah - that's one of the things that's so cool about the whole concept. It really can be an ever-present note manager. I use two computers all day, and I've started using EN3 as a kind of clipboard between them.
Captain CowPie
5/20/2008 1:01 pm
I've been doing the same thing between my Mac and PCs. It's an easy way to get things between the computers quickly. There are a lot of things I would like to see, but I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will show up.
Vince
dan7000 wrote:
Vince
dan7000 wrote:
Yeah - that's one of the things that's so cool about the whole concept. It
really can be an ever-present note manager. I use two computers all day, and I've
started using EN3 as a kind of clipboard between them.
Alexander Deliyannis
5/20/2008 1:38 pm
I received an interesting update today on Evernote Beta:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for using Evernote. We're constantly improving the service, and wanted to give you a quick update on recent enhancements and new features.
You requested it, and we made it happen:
- PDF support
- Encryption on Mac and Windows
- iPhone-optimized web version
We've also made the following enhancements to the Evernote clients:
- On Mac: Spotlight integration, new note views, drag-n-drop for multiple filetypes
- On Windows: Faster searching, improved stability, synchronization through password-protected proxies
- On the web: Ability to select multiple notes at once for easier moving, tagging, and deletion, faster search, improved browser support
- Service update: Tons of new hardware to make sure you have the best experience possible
Sign into your account: https://www.evernote.com/Login.action
Share your notebooks with your friends, the world, and now Facebook
On Mac and web you can publish any notebook and share it with anyone. Each public notebook has an RSS feed associated with it, so friends can subscribe to your public notebooks. Evernote now has a widget that can be placed onto any blog or Facebook page. Create a public notebook and click the "Get Widget" link.
More ways to capture and find your memories
Here's the growing list of ways you can access your notes: Evernote for Windows; Evernote for Mac; Evernote Web; Evernote iPhone Web; Evernote Mobile Web; Evernote for Windows Mobile. Remember, everything is always synchronized and available from anywhere.
Keep sensitive data secure
One of the great things about Evernote is its ability to synchronize all of your notes and memories across all the devices you use. In the event that some of that information is sensitive, you can now encrypt it with the Mac and Windows clients. You can encrypt a portion of a note and decrypt it with a password on another Evernote client. Make sure you don't forget that password, we do not store it anywhere on our servers and will not be able to recover the encrypted data.
Press coverage
Catch up on the latest Evernote reviews in: Ars Technica, Salon.com, Wired, TUAW, Lifehacker, and more at our media page: http://www.evernote.com/about/corp/news/
Stay on top of Evernote news
Subscribe to our blog (blog.evernote.com), follow us on Twitter (evernote), join our Facebook group (Evernoters), or subscribe to our FriendFeed (Evernote).
Why the Beta is important
The purpose of the beta is to test the system and get user feedback, so that we can make a better Evernote. Try it out and let us know what you think.
Thanks,
The Evernote team
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for using Evernote. We're constantly improving the service, and wanted to give you a quick update on recent enhancements and new features.
You requested it, and we made it happen:
- PDF support
- Encryption on Mac and Windows
- iPhone-optimized web version
We've also made the following enhancements to the Evernote clients:
- On Mac: Spotlight integration, new note views, drag-n-drop for multiple filetypes
- On Windows: Faster searching, improved stability, synchronization through password-protected proxies
- On the web: Ability to select multiple notes at once for easier moving, tagging, and deletion, faster search, improved browser support
- Service update: Tons of new hardware to make sure you have the best experience possible
Sign into your account: https://www.evernote.com/Login.action
Share your notebooks with your friends, the world, and now Facebook
On Mac and web you can publish any notebook and share it with anyone. Each public notebook has an RSS feed associated with it, so friends can subscribe to your public notebooks. Evernote now has a widget that can be placed onto any blog or Facebook page. Create a public notebook and click the "Get Widget" link.
More ways to capture and find your memories
Here's the growing list of ways you can access your notes: Evernote for Windows; Evernote for Mac; Evernote Web; Evernote iPhone Web; Evernote Mobile Web; Evernote for Windows Mobile. Remember, everything is always synchronized and available from anywhere.
Keep sensitive data secure
One of the great things about Evernote is its ability to synchronize all of your notes and memories across all the devices you use. In the event that some of that information is sensitive, you can now encrypt it with the Mac and Windows clients. You can encrypt a portion of a note and decrypt it with a password on another Evernote client. Make sure you don't forget that password, we do not store it anywhere on our servers and will not be able to recover the encrypted data.
Press coverage
Catch up on the latest Evernote reviews in: Ars Technica, Salon.com, Wired, TUAW, Lifehacker, and more at our media page: http://www.evernote.com/about/corp/news/
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Why the Beta is important
The purpose of the beta is to test the system and get user feedback, so that we can make a better Evernote. Try it out and let us know what you think.
Thanks,
The Evernote team
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Daly de Gagne
5/20/2008 2:52 pm
Thomas, the nice thing about InfoRecall is they let you try the program each year, when like clockwork, they bring out a new version. They have some good ideas about workspace -- but for me it just doesn't create much excitement.
Re Treepad group -- I think Henk moderates it himself. Iknow I had a post that was critical (mildly) lof Treepad, and I suggested an alternative. I never saw my post on the group.l That was a few years ago, and I have not posted since.
I think Treepad makes one of the nices outlines with icons and boxes and stuff, but about the time other developers were discovering that info in outlines could be manipulated, Henk discovered the web and Treepad's ability to create web pages. So he went one way and I went another (with, I suspect, a lot of users who wanted Treepad for info management, not web page building).
GemX's on-again, off-again customer care and mercurial response pattern is why I havve not invested much energy in any of their programs. The organizer has potential -- less thought to eye candy and more to functionality and power, and they could have a winner.
Daly
Thomas wrote:
Re Treepad group -- I think Henk moderates it himself. Iknow I had a post that was critical (mildly) lof Treepad, and I suggested an alternative. I never saw my post on the group.l That was a few years ago, and I have not posted since.
I think Treepad makes one of the nices outlines with icons and boxes and stuff, but about the time other developers were discovering that info in outlines could be manipulated, Henk discovered the web and Treepad's ability to create web pages. So he went one way and I went another (with, I suspect, a lot of users who wanted Treepad for info management, not web page building).
GemX's on-again, off-again customer care and mercurial response pattern is why I havve not invested much energy in any of their programs. The organizer has potential -- less thought to eye candy and more to functionality and power, and they could have a winner.
Daly
Thomas wrote:
That's a really nice summary.
The only you didn't mention that I could think of right
away is InfoRecall. (Last time I used it was over 10 years ago.)
Just few notes:
As
for MyInfo, it was more like that they were reluctant to implement hoist in current
version, due to it being too hard to implement. Which I can understand. The way they
have implemented the tree control, from what I could understood, differs from most
other products and is non-standard, that might be a factor as well.
Treepad group is
IMHO dead because it's on moderation, and it's not much supported - Henk seems to
prefer other communication channels, doesn't promote the group much and isn't
actively participating except answering the questions.
I actually liked GemX
products, except the bugs and the way of their communication and handling loyal
users. Do-Organizer while buggy and weak in some aspects, had great
potential.
Usually toilet paper works for me, but couldn't figure it out with
Evernote. It was the only thing that didnt' work for me with EN, unfortunately
substantial one.
Daly de Gagne
5/20/2008 3:04 pm
Dominik, I think I may end up using SQL notes once I have looked at it enough times that it begins to make sense to me! This is one program where what I wrote someplace else about having a well written manual for dummies like me is going to be vital!
WhizFolders does a lot, and has made many moves recently -- I hope it can get into columnar metadata. I wish it had different icons or an icon choice for notes. I like the way it has positioned itself as a writers program, with the ability to have a number of windows open.
If itwas stronger with web pages, I could perhaps use it for almost everything. I am using Evernote 2.2 and Surfulater for web pages -- nothing better than those two on the market, and it seems Neville always has a trick or two about his sleeves for Surfulater. Evernote's plan to use all the media available in some way or another is a brave attempt to capitalize on the totality of whatis available now.
I have one friend who is a very in-depth, detailed researcher in his field. He has a complaint that Evernote 3 has lost some of the search capability he needs. He also needs a program that supports other languages with accents and so on, and apparently he has asked Neville to work on it for Surfulater.
I have found UltraRecall sometimes crews up a web page copy, and it is too bad because thereis lots of power there.
Like me, he is a disenchanted lover of MDE InfoHandler's new changes.
I also miss ADM and its trajectory. Apparently Arne and Eric were last seen as panda feeders at the Beijing Zoo. I'll keep you posted. In the meantime, perhaps we could use a mind mapping program to come up with game called Where in the World Are Arne and Eric?, or Arne and Eric Meet Carmen Sandeigo.
Seriously, I hope Arne didn't lose everything backing up ADM, and that we might yet see a new, improved version.
Daly
Dominik Holenstein wrote:
WhizFolders does a lot, and has made many moves recently -- I hope it can get into columnar metadata. I wish it had different icons or an icon choice for notes. I like the way it has positioned itself as a writers program, with the ability to have a number of windows open.
If itwas stronger with web pages, I could perhaps use it for almost everything. I am using Evernote 2.2 and Surfulater for web pages -- nothing better than those two on the market, and it seems Neville always has a trick or two about his sleeves for Surfulater. Evernote's plan to use all the media available in some way or another is a brave attempt to capitalize on the totality of whatis available now.
I have one friend who is a very in-depth, detailed researcher in his field. He has a complaint that Evernote 3 has lost some of the search capability he needs. He also needs a program that supports other languages with accents and so on, and apparently he has asked Neville to work on it for Surfulater.
I have found UltraRecall sometimes crews up a web page copy, and it is too bad because thereis lots of power there.
Like me, he is a disenchanted lover of MDE InfoHandler's new changes.
I also miss ADM and its trajectory. Apparently Arne and Eric were last seen as panda feeders at the Beijing Zoo. I'll keep you posted. In the meantime, perhaps we could use a mind mapping program to come up with game called Where in the World Are Arne and Eric?, or Arne and Eric Meet Carmen Sandeigo.
Seriously, I hope Arne didn't lose everything backing up ADM, and that we might yet see a new, improved version.
Daly
Dominik Holenstein wrote:
Daly,
Thank for your great market overview!
Just my 2cents:
When I look at
development speed, communciation, listening and bug fixing then I end up with these
three applications:
- UltraRecall
- Whizfolders Pro (or Deluxe)
-
SQLNotes
Personally, despite some CRIMP attacks, I always end up in in using
UltraRecall. I don't love it, I like it. And sometimes I miss ADM.
Dominik
Daly de Gagne
5/20/2008 3:09 pm
Stephen, I have tried The Brain a few times. This last time quite seriously.
I like the screen action -- up to a point, then it gets disconcerting.
Apparently there are people with thousands of files connected to The Brain, and they love it.
The Brain has moved ahead a lot with note keeping, calendar, embedded file capabilities, etc.
I think is is quite a good program, but not for me. Although...if I had three months of using it exclusively, I might like it.
I looked at Personal Knowbase after you mentioned it here again. It is a little too simple for me, but its use of key words or tags is good. Incidentally, if Neville could get a system like that for his category tree, he'd have a winning combination in Surfulater.
OneNote came on my new Toshiba, and frankly I haven't been tempted to play with it. Perhaps I should.
Daly
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
I like the screen action -- up to a point, then it gets disconcerting.
Apparently there are people with thousands of files connected to The Brain, and they love it.
The Brain has moved ahead a lot with note keeping, calendar, embedded file capabilities, etc.
I think is is quite a good program, but not for me. Although...if I had three months of using it exclusively, I might like it.
I looked at Personal Knowbase after you mentioned it here again. It is a little too simple for me, but its use of key words or tags is good. Incidentally, if Neville could get a system like that for his category tree, he'd have a winning combination in Surfulater.
OneNote came on my new Toshiba, and frankly I haven't been tempted to play with it. Perhaps I should.
Daly
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
Daly,
A few notable applications you left off your list:
* OneNote is quite
powerful, though it is quite different than most of the information managers
discussed here. It has the support of the titan behind it. I believe one reason for
EverNote's change in direction is that version 2.2 was competing directly with ON...
and even though EN was cheaper (in fact free), it appears to have been losing that
battle. The biggest issue with ON is that it still does not play as well with its own
siblings (Word, Excel) as it could.
* The Brain... which I do not know much about...
Is it an information manager or a mind mapper?
* Personal Knowbase... I know it
doesn't have much of a following on this forum, but it has always appealed to me in its
simplicity. A keyword based note card system... a stripped down version of
InfoHandler. Still has a loyal following.
And as long as you're mentioning
Treepad, we should probably mention the other long-in-the-tooth two-pane
outliners: Jot+, ActionOutliner, Maple and BlackHole Organizer. These were
exciting when they first came out six or seven years ago, but now have been passed by. I
must say, however, that I still use Treepad Lite fairly often. It is quick and easy to
use, is a single executable file (so can be used from a USB drive), and the lack of bells
and whistles is just right for some jobs.
Steve Z.
Daly de Gagne
5/20/2008 3:11 pm
Re Maple, Jot, etc., I think they are essentially dead in the water, and in today's market overpriced for what they do. Unless they get new capabilities, they'll be gone.
Daly
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
Daly
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
Daly,
A few notable applications you left off your list:
* OneNote is quite
powerful, though it is quite different than most of the information managers
discussed here. It has the support of the titan behind it. I believe one reason for
EverNote's change in direction is that version 2.2 was competing directly with ON...
and even though EN was cheaper (in fact free), it appears to have been losing that
battle. The biggest issue with ON is that it still does not play as well with its own
siblings (Word, Excel) as it could.
* The Brain... which I do not know much about...
Is it an information manager or a mind mapper?
* Personal Knowbase... I know it
doesn't have much of a following on this forum, but it has always appealed to me in its
simplicity. A keyword based note card system... a stripped down version of
InfoHandler. Still has a loyal following.
And as long as you're mentioning
Treepad, we should probably mention the other long-in-the-tooth two-pane
outliners: Jot+, ActionOutliner, Maple and BlackHole Organizer. These were
exciting when they first came out six or seven years ago, but now have been passed by. I
must say, however, that I still use Treepad Lite fairly often. It is quick and easy to
use, is a single executable file (so can be used from a USB drive), and the lack of bells
and whistles is just right for some jobs.
Steve Z.
Daly de Gagne
5/20/2008 3:14 pm
Dan, a lot of people have been expressing the kids of concerns you have raised. I understand the developers are well aware of the issues, and taking the stance that that is why the program is still in beta.
I have primarily used EN3 beta to clip to my own computer files, and it does that well.
My friend who is into the heavy duty research, and whom I mentioned earlier, is highly pissed off because apparently EN3 has a decreased search capability.
Daly
dan7000 wrote:
I have primarily used EN3 beta to clip to my own computer files, and it does that well.
My friend who is into the heavy duty research, and whom I mentioned earlier, is highly pissed off because apparently EN3 has a decreased search capability.
Daly
dan7000 wrote:
re EN 3.0
I've been using the 3.0 beta a lot lately, really trying to give it a fair
shake. I am actually quite optimistic about the concept but I don't think it's
executed well enough yet, in 3 respects: web integration, clipping, rich
formatting, and data storage.
Web Integration:
I really like this idea. Daly, you
say that some people don't like the idea of storing data on the web. But that's not
really what EN3 does. It stores data on the web and the desktop, and allows syncing
between them. Or you can store only on the desktop and turn sync off.
I like the idea
because I use multiple machines and I want my notes everywhere, and this looks like a
painless way to do it.
Also, I like it because I'm a CRIMPer and this is a shiny new idea
that nobody else is trying :)
Clipping:
Daly mentions that EN2.2 was one of the best
web clippers available. I never used it except for a brief trial, so I don't know about
2.2, but 3.0 is terrible. Formatting from clipped pages is totally destroyed in 3.0.
Moreover, this is true for all types of copied and pasted data - not just from the web.
For instance, if I copy from a Word doc and paste into 3.0, the formatting from the Word
doc is likely to be messed up. Same thing with using the send to EN button in Outlook.
Rich Note Formatting:
This area is obviously related to the richness of clipping,
and thus it is also terrible. No support for tables in a note. Need I say more?
Data
Storage:
By "data storage" I mean types of data you can keep in the program. In ADM and
OneNote I can drag an entire file into the program and it's stored there. Or I can paste a
picture into a note, or insert a picture file. Some other programs have full
OLE/ActiveX support, so you can paste many types of rich data into a document and edit
in-place. For instance, I can insert an Excel table into Word and then edit the excel
table in-place in the word document using Excel's own editing code. (Why can't
OneNote do that?)
EN allows me to paste a very limited set of non-text data into a note,
and does not allow me to store a whole file in a note. You can't even insert common
picture file types.
This feature is the deal-killer for me. The thing that would make
EN's web/desktop integration really cool and worthwhile would be if I could use it as a
platform for all of my work. But it doesn't help me to have my notes about a particular
document on 2 machines, if the document itself is only available on 1 machine.
Daly de Gagne
5/20/2008 3:19 pm
Vince, by the way, what are you using for info management on the Mac -- saw you IS group post, and realized you're in a neat position to be trying new stuff andm aking some comparisons.
Daly
Captain CowPie wrote:
Daly
Captain CowPie wrote:
I've been doing the same thing between my Mac and PCs. It's an easy way to get things
between the computers quickly. There are a lot of things I would like to see, but I am
giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will show up.
Vince
dan7000
wrote:
>
>
>Yeah - that's one of the things that's so cool about the whole concept. It
>really can be an ever-present note manager. I use two computers all day, and I've
>started using EN3 as a kind of clipboard between them.
Captain CowPie
5/21/2008 3:17 am
Daly,
I had always wanted an all-in-one program while using the PC, and liked IS for that even with all of it's quirks. But since moving to the Mac, I don't find any problems with having different programs for different needs. Things seem to work together better under OSX.
I think there is a lot of excellent activity on the Mac side right now. I tried a bunch of programs and many of them were very good. The first one I settled on was Journler, written by Phil Dow. I had tried many of the programs, but kept coming back to Journler. The code was well-written, and had some nice features others did not. One nice touch that I had just started to explore was that a child smart folder inherited it's parent's rules.
For example, I could have a parent smart folder that brought in all notes tagged with NA. Then I could have a child smart folders underneath that showed all notes tagged with, say, @Call. But the child folder would not show a note unless it was tagged with @Call AND NA. It allowed for some interesting rules that I had just begun to explore.
But like I said in my IS post, I am trying out the new Evernote 3 mainly because it can be used on both Mac and PC. Also, I plan to purchase an iPhone shortly and look forward the the iPhone client. EN3 has some work ahead of it even to bring it up to EN2.2 standards, but I believe it will get there. The Mac client is much more polished than the PC client right now.
So the bottom line is I am very happy with my Mac and the programs available. I was planning on installing Parallels when I first purchased the Mac, but have not found a need for it at all.
Vince
Daly de Gagne wrote:
I had always wanted an all-in-one program while using the PC, and liked IS for that even with all of it's quirks. But since moving to the Mac, I don't find any problems with having different programs for different needs. Things seem to work together better under OSX.
I think there is a lot of excellent activity on the Mac side right now. I tried a bunch of programs and many of them were very good. The first one I settled on was Journler, written by Phil Dow. I had tried many of the programs, but kept coming back to Journler. The code was well-written, and had some nice features others did not. One nice touch that I had just started to explore was that a child smart folder inherited it's parent's rules.
For example, I could have a parent smart folder that brought in all notes tagged with NA. Then I could have a child smart folders underneath that showed all notes tagged with, say, @Call. But the child folder would not show a note unless it was tagged with @Call AND NA. It allowed for some interesting rules that I had just begun to explore.
But like I said in my IS post, I am trying out the new Evernote 3 mainly because it can be used on both Mac and PC. Also, I plan to purchase an iPhone shortly and look forward the the iPhone client. EN3 has some work ahead of it even to bring it up to EN2.2 standards, but I believe it will get there. The Mac client is much more polished than the PC client right now.
So the bottom line is I am very happy with my Mac and the programs available. I was planning on installing Parallels when I first purchased the Mac, but have not found a need for it at all.
Vince
Daly de Gagne wrote:
Vince, by the way, what are you using for info management on the Mac -- saw you IS group
post, and realized you're in a neat position to be trying new stuff andm aking some
comparisons.
Cassius
5/22/2008 1:29 am
Re: Maple, InfoRecall & Jot+:
Development on Jot+ seems to be dead in the water. A few months ago I asked the author, who said he was working on minor fixes and changes, but still no beta.
It's been a while since I used Maple. I gave it up when recent updates/upgrades required contortions in order to read files created with older versions.
I tried different versions of InfoRecall, but all were too buggy.
Now, I only use myBase and Jot+. The latter because I have 10 years worth of data in it, the former because I really like its capabilities.
Has anyone tried exporting/importing Jot+ files into UltraRecall?
-c
Development on Jot+ seems to be dead in the water. A few months ago I asked the author, who said he was working on minor fixes and changes, but still no beta.
It's been a while since I used Maple. I gave it up when recent updates/upgrades required contortions in order to read files created with older versions.
I tried different versions of InfoRecall, but all were too buggy.
Now, I only use myBase and Jot+. The latter because I have 10 years worth of data in it, the former because I really like its capabilities.
Has anyone tried exporting/importing Jot+ files into UltraRecall?
-c
Stephen Zeoli
5/22/2008 1:12 pm
I just got the following e-mail from Evernote:
[begin e-mail quote]
You requested help with changing your Evernote password.
If you did not request help, then feel free to ignore this email.
To change your password, please click the link below:
[I deleted the link]
This link will work for 2 hours or until you reset your password.
[end e-mail quote]
Interestingly, I never made such a request. I wonder if people are trying to hack into Evernote accounts.
Steve Z.
[begin e-mail quote]
You requested help with changing your Evernote password.
If you did not request help, then feel free to ignore this email.
To change your password, please click the link below:
[I deleted the link]
This link will work for 2 hours or until you reset your password.
[end e-mail quote]
Interestingly, I never made such a request. I wonder if people are trying to hack into Evernote accounts.
Steve Z.
jediknight
5/29/2008 2:48 am
I am worried that Evernote wants to become a "facebook" of people's notes. This may cause them to lose focus on what makes Evernote so great.
The first feature I don't like in EN 3.0 is the change of "folders" to "tags." What are they thinking? The main reason I use evernote is to organize myself using folders. Each customer of mine has a folder, which is further broken down into logical groupings that I make. That is why I don't use OneNote, since I can't arrange data in explorer-like folders. Does anyone else use Evernote like this?
The other feature I don't like is the security issue. I can't have customer data in Evernote 3.0 because of the risk of security breach. However, I can lock down my laptop pretty tight to keep people from getting my evernote 2.2 data.
I sent my concerns to them via email, but have not received a response. What is the purpose for beta if user input falls on deaf ears?
The first feature I don't like in EN 3.0 is the change of "folders" to "tags." What are they thinking? The main reason I use evernote is to organize myself using folders. Each customer of mine has a folder, which is further broken down into logical groupings that I make. That is why I don't use OneNote, since I can't arrange data in explorer-like folders. Does anyone else use Evernote like this?
The other feature I don't like is the security issue. I can't have customer data in Evernote 3.0 because of the risk of security breach. However, I can lock down my laptop pretty tight to keep people from getting my evernote 2.2 data.
I sent my concerns to them via email, but have not received a response. What is the purpose for beta if user input falls on deaf ears?
dan7000
5/29/2008 5:35 pm
jedi,
re: security,
you can use EN3.0 just like you use 2.2, as a desktop-only application. There is no requirement of syncing with an online account. Does that resolve your security concern?
re: tags vs folders,
I understand your preference for folders, but lately I have been gravitating towards the tag metaphor, because of using del.ici.ous and other tag-based online services. I like tags because unlike folders, an item can have 2 or more tags - with folders you're limited to one.
Ideally, I'd like a program that supported both tags and folders.
re: security,
you can use EN3.0 just like you use 2.2, as a desktop-only application. There is no requirement of syncing with an online account. Does that resolve your security concern?
re: tags vs folders,
I understand your preference for folders, but lately I have been gravitating towards the tag metaphor, because of using del.ici.ous and other tag-based online services. I like tags because unlike folders, an item can have 2 or more tags - with folders you're limited to one.
Ideally, I'd like a program that supported both tags and folders.
Alexander Deliyannis
5/29/2008 6:58 pm
dan7000 wrote:
Have you tried Surfulater? Its latest version (currently pre-release but stable) supports a tag tree in addition to the normal topic tree; the best of both worlds:
http://blog.surfulater.com/2008/05/05/surfulater-pre-release-version-29100-is-here-tags-come-to-town/
Cheers
Alexander
I'd like a program that supported both tags and folders.
Have you tried Surfulater? Its latest version (currently pre-release but stable) supports a tag tree in addition to the normal topic tree; the best of both worlds:
http://blog.surfulater.com/2008/05/05/surfulater-pre-release-version-29100-is-here-tags-come-to-town/
Cheers
Alexander
Alexander Deliyannis
5/30/2008 6:36 pm
Since my post of yesterday, Surfulater's developer has announced a new pre-release version with improved tagging: http://blog.surfulater.com/2008/05/30/surfulater-pre-release-version-29200-tagging-moves-ahead/