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Remember the Milk Gets a Total Overhaul
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Posted by MadaboutDana
Feb 10, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Stimulated by my last thought, I’ve just had a quick sniff at Todoist again (must get back to work, really!), and yes, it could indeed by used as a fairly powerful outliner.
The only downside is exporting data - not easy from Todoist (you can print pages, which means you can output PDFs if you prefer, and it automatically takes backups, but there’s no other output option as far as I can tell).
On the plus side: the quick search automatically searches notes; you can set up sophisticated filters, and it uses tags (“Labels” in Todoist-speak). In short, a very useful info management app, with basic support for Markdown, although I’m not sure I’d want to use it for handling huge amounts of data (having said which, I’ve happily copied pages of minutes into comments in the past).
Definitely worth a closer look!
Posted by MadaboutDana
Feb 10, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Stimulated by my last thought, I’ve just had a quick sniff at Todoist again (must get back to work, really!), and yes, it could indeed by used as a fairly powerful outliner.
The only downside is exporting data - not easy from Todoist (you can print pages, which means you can output PDFs if you prefer, and it automatically takes backups, but there’s no other output option as far as I can tell).
On the plus side: the quick search automatically searches notes; you can set up sophisticated filters, and it uses tags (“Labels” in Todoist-speak). In short, a very useful info management app, with basic support for Markdown, although I’m not sure I’d want to use it for handling huge amounts of data (having said which, I’ve happily copied pages of minutes into comments in the past).
Definitely worth a closer look!
Posted by Ken
Oct 26, 2018 at 10:48 PM
MadaboutDana wrote:
Having shelled out GBP 27 or so for the Pro version, I continue to be
>impressed by RTM, although it does have a couple of weaknesses.
>
>First, subtasks are very cool. They are infinitely hierarchisable (if
>that’s a word); i.e. you can have subtasks of subtasks of subtasks. Not
>that I’m saying that’s necessarily a good way to organise yourself, but
>what I like about this is that each subtask has all the same features as
>a main task (i.e. notes, settings, alarms etc.). This means you can
>organise very large projects relatively easily, something that most task
>managers don’t handle well. It contrasts with apps like Wunderlist (and
>others), where subtasks are basically just a checklist (i.e. useless). I
>don’t know many/any task managers that offer multiple layers of subtasks
>(actually, I lie: OmniFocus does, but is so convoluted that I’ve really
>gone off it. Oh, and so does Todoist, but again, makes too much of a
>meal of very basic things, like entering notes).
>
>The lack of rich-text support is a pity. But you can add multiple notes
>to each task (including subtasks). What could be improved is the sorting
>of notes: currently there’s no way of changing the default “by date
>modified” order; drag-and-drop sorting would be good.
>
>Note that with a Pro account, you can sort tasks (as opposed to notes)
>in a wide variety of ways (including drag-and-drop, if you prefer);
>there are also advanced sort options.
>
>Currently there’s no calendar subscription feature. One of the very
>powerful features of TickTick (one of the closest equivalents to RTM in
>terms of model, albeit without subtasks) is its calendar support (as
>well as its fast sync and sharing).
>
>RTM syncs pretty fast, in my experience; the occasional hesitation is no
>worse than many others.
>
>RTM does have one minor bug: sometimes subtasks don’t immediately appear
>in the list, even though they’re clearly there (sensibly, each parent
>task shows the number of subtasks, so you can see they’re being totted
>up). This is a bit disconcerting, but the desktop client has a refresh
>option in the View menu, so clearly the developers are aware of this
>particular foible.
>
>The search function is interesting. There’s a basic search that focuses
>solely on task names, but a drop-down box gives you access to advanced
>features, including search within notes and the ability to add multiple
>search criteria. This is quite nicely done, and certainly works well.
>The “Smart List” feature complements this admirably - you can create any
>number of lists with very specific criteria such as “tasks NOT due today
>or tomorrow”, “tasks with no due date” and so on.
>
>Finally, with a Pro account, you can differentiate tags by colour. I
>find this a useful feature, myself. Simple example, I use a specific
>colour for all “client” tags, so I can see at a glance which tasks are
>related to projects for clients vs. internal admin (etc. etc.). Of
>course tasks/subtasks can be assigned multiple tags. Worth noting that
>subtasks aren’t automatically assigned their parent task’s tags. On the
>other hand, in Today/TomorrowThis Week views, the fact that they’re
>subtasks is clearly indicated by a helpful upward pointing arrow in the
>margin, and it’s very easy to move directly to the parent task from a
>subtask (some task managers make this much more complicated than it
>should be).
>
>So: still a bit of development work to do, but a very promising start
>for this brand-new version of RTM. Raising an interesting tangential
>question: with task managers becoming really quite sophisticated
>information managers, why doesn’t some bright spark bring this
>functionality to outliners/knowledge management apps? I have been toying
>with the idea of using Todoist not as a task manager, but as an
>information manager/outliner, but I haven’t got around to playing with
>that yet.
Reviving an old thread as I have been giving RTM another look. Not too happy about the lack of folders to manage lists, but still interested in the program as the Pro version seems to do well with notes and tags. @Bill - Are you still using RTM? And if not, what are you using instead? I am using Todoist for personal work, but not happy with how it handles notes, and I prefer a three column layout if possible.
—Ken
Posted by MadaboutDana
Oct 29, 2018 at 09:50 AM
Hey Ken,
No, I stopped using RTM a little while ago after discussing task management concerns with my colleagues. We’ve gone back to using the ever-evolving TickTick, which remains a very convenient low-cost way of sharing tasks between multiple coworkers.
It’s not ideal - I’d really prefer rich text in notes, but they don’t have that in their current roadmap. But the range of options is very well thought-out (yes, they also offer start dates under “duration”), it’s very quick (also very quick to sync), works on multiple platforms, integrates with Calendar etc. etc. From my point of view, it’s a bit of a compromise, but then so are most task management apps.
What I also do, however, is keep a mini-todo list just for today’s key tasks, either in Unclutter (which lives at the top of my Mac screen) or in Bear. I suppose I should really use TickTick’s tagging facility and create a “today” tag, but sometimes it’s just better to have stuff in a simple, separate list - especially if it’s a project subtask. I then update my notes in TickTick once I’ve completed today’s task. Again, it’s a compromise, but actually works better than struggling to create increasingly complex outlines, kanban charts, complex catalogues with priorities etc. etc. And my coworkers can also see what I’m doing!
I’ve come to the conclusion that task management is just very difficult, period! And increasingly feel that a central repository of tasks with notes accompanied by a personal side list of stuff you’ve got to get done NOW is probably the closest thing to an efficient task management system. Otherwise the whole thing just becomes overwhelming.
Cheers!
Bill
Posted by nathanb
Oct 29, 2018 at 09:56 PM
>I’ve come to the conclusion that task management is just very difficult,
>period! And increasingly feel that a central repository of tasks with
>notes accompanied by a personal side list of stuff you’ve got to get
>done NOW is probably the closest thing to an efficient task management
>system. Otherwise the whole thing just becomes overwhelming.
>
Same. I go through that cycle of my brain telling me I need more complexity to get a good handle on my tasks, then my habits prove otherwise as the complexity just becomes another unmanageable project. Looking back, it’s been the most simple tools that I’ve used more effectively for longer periods than the powerful ones. Wunderlist is probably the best example of that. I’ve been with ToDoist for over a year now but I keep abusing the nesting and struggle with keeping the right simple/complex balance.
Because of the desktop outlook integration, I’ve started using Microsoft To-Do for work tasks and I’m really digging that ‘my-day’ feature. In theory, it’s no different than just putting a date on a task to ear-mark it for today. But in practice it works much better for me. Manually dating tasks to force them to be on my ‘now’ list always created the extra task of re-scheduling the uncompleted ones at the end of the day. This was annoying to keep up with. I also generally have a separate ‘now’ list to dump all the random work stuff that comes up every. Stuff that’s generally too small and quick to bother with putting on a master list. Dumping into ‘my-day’ is a pretty solid fusion of combining these two flows.
So now I’m trying to decide if I want to use it for personal tasks too. Generally, I try to be on one platform to minimize the friction of the little interface differences. I’m starting to think that’s a bad reason since most tools these days so learning or forgetting an interface isn’t much of a thing anymore. I deal just fine with personal gmail and work Outlook. I don’t think I want the two worlds showing up in the same ‘today’ views anymore. So with To-Do, I think I’d have to switch between work/personal accounts to make that happen. That doesn’t work when wanting a ‘quick capture’ option for both worlds at all times. I’ll likely roll with To-Doist for personal, and To-Do for work and see how that goes.
The irony about that is because my home task situation is MUCH simpler than work. Work is a constant stream of new inputs (tens per day), home is a trickle (tens per week). Work projects are more numerous and complex. So if I try to flow work through a complex task system (like todoist can become), it quickly becomes just too much to manage. I can only manage fast and simple and can’t take the time to define and categorize every next step or I’ll just drive myself insane. This works out because I’m able to have longer times to focus on these projects. Personal tasks aren’t as numerous, but they are more disjointed where I have 15 minutes at a time a few times a week to deal with them instead of a whole day of work dedicated to that list. Like a medical bill where I keep asking for and forwarding dumb info over the course of a few weeks. That’s a good application for defining the next steps and putting in contexts because it’s not an overwhelming thing to manage and it’s actually an efficient workflow.
So yeah, feature-rich task managers for low frequency work, simple and dumb for an overwhelming task situation. Makes total sense. I’ll probably change my mind in six months.