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Mourning the passing of Pocketthinker
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Posted by Pierre Paul Landry
Dec 13, 2007 at 06:41 PM
Humm… I don’t quite understand. The written text outline is shown as outline items or in the word-processing window? A picture is worth a thousand words, but I can’t seem to find anything on GrandView (ActionOutline seems to have spammed it).
I got a zip file from which I should be able to install it, but I fail to see how I’m supposed to do that. Got it from:
http://vetusware.com/download/Symantec%20Grandview%202.0/?id=3631
I read that Ecco was inspired from GrandView. Since SQLNotes is inspired from Ecco, there may be a way here to resurrect GrandView…
Posted by Derek Cornish
Dec 13, 2007 at 07:25 PM
PPL wrote:
>It was pretty clear from his e-mails, that he had no interest in working on/selling it
>anymore.
Well, I hope on further reflection he’ll change his mind :-)
>As to a Grandview replacement, what features are missing in the current
>version of SQLNotes?
That’s a very tall order (i) as I recently uninstalled SQLNotes - simply because I am looking for a fully-featured outliner to replace Grandview (GV), not an Ecco-type pim; and (ii) GV is a rather complex program. The two Steves - Steve Z, and Steve Cohen (who used to post here) - are the real GV experts. You can find archive postings on GV by them using the “Search” feature on this forum.
The best thing to do is to get hold of a copy yourself - not an easy thing as Symantec still holds copyright, is not going to give it up, and is not selling the program - a DOS one - any more. But a flavour of the program can be found by downloading its little brother PC-Outline, if you can find it (not the Windows version, which was awful, but the Brownbag Software’s original DOS version). Look at:
http://www.jlarue.com/blastfrompast.html
...for a brief discussion of these DOS outliners, and
http://www.umich.edu/~archive/msdos/database/pcoutline/
...to download PC-Outline (pco330.arc).
Also http://www.faughnan.com/more/index.html contains some discussion of More (Mac) and GV (PC).
When considering single-pane outliners as writers’ tools it’s not simply a question of features - although GV can hoist, clone, gather, binsort, attach categories, and so on - but of general usability, and that intangible but important feeling of being in an undistracting “writer’s environment” rather than in a spreadsheet or PIM. To me this means a program that’s limited in the sense of being focused, and fit for purpose, much in the way that Zoot is. Less is more.
That is not, of course, to criticise, dismiss or demean the notion of adding of outlining features to PIMS, where - as in Ecco - they are essential IMO. But there are usually limits to what is feasible in the context of all the other objectives of the program and the constraints imposed on its design by these other goals.
Needless to say, the very best of luck in building GV’s strengths into SQLNotes, and in creating a creative “island” within the software where one can close off all other distractions and concentrate on brainstorming, outlining and writing.
Derek
Posted by Stephen Zeoli
Dec 13, 2007 at 11:33 PM
> Humm… I don’t quite understand. The written text outline is shown as outline items or in the word-processing window? A picture is worth a thousand words, but I can’t seem to find anything on GrandView (ActionOutline seems to have spammed it).
Okay, try this image. Think of a two-pane outliner like ActionOutline. You create your structure in the tree pane, and then can write as much as you want in the note/editor window. Now visualize this… in the tree pane you can toggle the view so that you can either see just the item headers or the item headers with the note contents all in the tree view. Not only that, you can select which headers show their content and which do not.
I don’t know if that helps you see what I mean or not. I hope so.
Steve Z.
Posted by Derek Cornish
Dec 14, 2007 at 03:52 AM
> A picture is worth a thousand words, but I can’t seem to find anything on GrandView
I’ve emailed some screenshots (*.png) to your website support address.
Derek
Posted by Pierre Paul Landry
Dec 14, 2007 at 06:15 AM
Derek Cornish wrote:
>> A picture is worth a thousand words, but I can’t seem to find anything on GrandView
>
>I’ve emailed some screenshots (*.png) to your website support address.
>
Thanks! I’ve done a demo of how SQLNotes can show/hide the rich-text right in the outline. It is a very rough demo of a first cut at such a feature according to what Stephen Zeoli was mentioning here earlier:
Okay, try this image. Think of a two-pane outliner like ActionOutline. You create your structure in the tree pane, and then can write as much as you want in the note/editor window. Now visualize this… in the tree pane you can toggle the view so that you can either see just the item headers or the item headers with the note contents all in the tree view. Not only that, you can select which headers show their content and which do not.
The video can be seen here:
http://www.sqlnotes.net/public/download/SQLNotes/TextOutliner/outliner.wmv