After discovering this week how much Evernote has screwed up its browser version, I began to look again for a replacement.

Clibu is not nearly sufficiently advanced, though it has promise. And Surfulater, its older sibling, seems to have been abandoned in terms of development.

Then I recalled Nimbus Notes, and kind of liked what I saw. It seems to have early on in its life to have shown greater understanding of information than Evernote has shown.

Anyone else seeing Nimbus Notes as an EN alternative?

Are there others?

I've thought of using MyInfo in DropBox - but have found that web pages which are "live" cannot be safely clipped. But I do like the columns feature.

I've a lot of material in Surfulater but don't want to trust a product that's not being developed any longer.

So am also thinking of WhizFolders.

Wondering if Workflowy can be modified?

Thoughts anyone?

Daly

Sharing how exactly, Daly? Across which platforms?

My first impulse is to suggest Notebooks, but that doesn't run on Android. It runs on Windows, Mac and iOS, and is a better repository than Evernote (IMHO).

My second impulse is to suggest OneNote, although it can be irritating. But it does run on every platform, more or less (oh, except Linux).

Daly, I have been a fairly steady user of Evernote since 2006, and through the years I have accumulated more than 20,000 notes in the program.

In recent months I have been relying on Evernote to create an online catalogue of William Morris's personal library (http://williammorrislibrary.wordpress.com/ which I am doing in collaboration with my wife. It's a very big project: we are recording information about some 2,000 books (and manuscripts), of which we have posted 860 so far on our website.

Last month I bought a Surface Pro 3 (a very nice device, by the way) to replace my old laptop and discovered that Evernote would not sync on it. I of course immediately got in touch with the Evernote support staff, but so far they have not been able to solve the mystery. Evernote is still functioning on my desktop machine, but what this means is that I can no longer use it in libraries (where I have to do most of my research).

This has been going on for a month now, and finally this weekend, in extreme frustration, I shifted all of my thousands of notes and drafts for the project over to OneNote, using a useful little utility program called OneNote Batch.

We will see whether that was a wise decision. So far I've noticed only two features of Evernote that I will miss. First, the tags in OneNote are quite feeble, consisting mainly of cute little icons. Second, it is more difficult to transfer images from OneNote to Wordpress.com (the platform for our catalogue). With Evernote I was able to drag and drop the images, but in OneNote that doesn't work, and I am forced to use some awkward workarounds. Other than that, OneNote seems very well suited for a project like this.

Bill

Daly,
Thanks for trying Clibu. I would welcome your feedback on where you see it is currently lacking and if possible if you could prioritize the capabilities you need, that would be most helpful.

And I'd welcome and appreciate feedback from any other Outliner Software members. With the latest release of Clibu, last week, anyone can signup and get immediate access.

For those who don't know anything about Clibu here is some information.

---------------
Clibu captures information, lets you edit it and easily find it again.

Some Key Features

- Hierarchical Tags and Multiple word tags.
- Rename, rearrange and delete Tags.
- Access your information from any PC anywhere.
- Content on all users PC's is updated in realtime.
- Share and collaborate with others.
- Rich Editing capabilities.
- The Web Clipper collects Web page content in a snap.
- Email information to Clibu from your smart phone, tablet etc.
- Link articles together.
- Image Capture from the Web & Clipboard.
- Smart full text search.
- Clean design and simple to use.
-------------------

Neville, http://www.clibu.com

I primarily use EN on my laptops.

At times, eg at the library or St Arbucks, I like to use the app on my tursty Nexus.

So far so good.

But there are times when I may want to go onto a browser, especially if I am for whatever reason without my laptop or Nexus.

Having not used the browser version of EVERNOTE for some time went on-line to use it this week. It was atrocious, a bad example of bad design, or else an all-out sign from Evernote it's not seriously interested in making it easy to manage information (seems to me more interested in profitable deals with Moleskine [overpriced at best compared to other notebooks of similar or better quality costing less - Leuctturm] and other merchandisers, playing with great technology but never getting truly serious about it).

The EN browser version is so off the wall, over the top in a bad way it leaves me with a feeling serious information users can't trust EN. One reason EN has been as popular as it has been is a whole bunch of creative users who have developed a lot of work-arounds for what wasn't in EN in the first place. Trying to use those work-arounds in the browser version now is a joke.

I will look at Notebooks again.

And as for OneNote I'm not clear on how I can set it up to work with 1,000s of documents.

So for now I am OK if I never want to use EN on the laptops or the Nexus. But my confidence in the whole EN enterprise has been shaken by a this incredibly bad design which a) either shows lack of common/aesthetic sense, (b) lack of understanding of what's necessary for information management, or (c) both.

That's why I want an alternative.

Thanks.

Daly

MadaboutDana wrote:

Sharing how exactly, Daly? Across which platforms?

My first impulse is to suggest Notebooks, but that doesn't run on
Android. It runs on Windows, Mac and iOS, and is a better repository
than Evernote (IMHO).

My second impulse is to suggest OneNote, although it can be irritating.
But it does run on every platform, more or less (oh, except Linux).

Thanks Bill, for your suggestion re OneNote.

Here comes a sure sign of my ignorance: I cannot even imagine how to set up EN and use it for such a project.

But...if may be so bold, assuming there's nothing confidential in the library, I'd love to see how you've got EN set up (plus get a chance to learn more about a truly interesting individual).

I might be able to see that OneNote could be a solution.

But I agree with you that the ON tags are quite weak.

BTW just looked at your website and saw the graphic of Morris' study - what a neat place to work and read in!

Daly

WSP wrote:

Daly, I have been a fairly steady user of Evernote since 2006, and
through the years I have accumulated more than 20,000 notes in the
program.

In recent months I have been relying on Evernote to create an online
catalogue of William Morris's personal library
(http://williammorrislibrary.wordpress.com/ which I am doing in
collaboration with my wife. It's a very big project: we are recording
information about some 2,000 books (and manuscripts), of which we have
posted 860 so far on our website.

Last month I bought a Surface Pro 3 (a very nice device, by the way) to
replace my old laptop and discovered that Evernote would not sync on it.
I of course immediately got in touch with the Evernote support staff,
but so far they have not been able to solve the mystery. Evernote is
still functioning on my desktop machine, but what this means is that I
can no longer use it in libraries (where I have to do most of my
research).

This has been going on for a month now, and finally this weekend, in
extreme frustration, I shifted all of my thousands of notes and drafts
for the project over to OneNote, using a useful little utility program
called OneNote Batch.

We will see whether that was a wise decision. So far I've noticed only
two features of Evernote that I will miss. First, the tags in OneNote
are quite feeble, consisting mainly of cute little icons. Second, it is
more difficult to transfer images from OneNote to Wordpress.com (the
platform for our catalogue). With Evernote I was able to drag and drop
the images, but in OneNote that doesn't work, and I am forced to use
some awkward workarounds. Other than that, OneNote seems very well
suited for a project like this.

Bill

Neville Franks wrote:

And I'd welcome and appreciate feedback from any other Outliner Software
members.

Hi Neville,

Thanks for opening up the beta.

is Clibu entirely browser-based, or is there going to be a Windows etc. client?

is it currently possible to attach screenshots with the Clibu Web Clipper?

As for the current interface, my suggestion would be to add a "minimalist" or "skeleton" view that displays an article in small font in a single line, with its main data, such as title, date added, tags (and maybe URL at the end, so at least the beginning of it would be visible, even if the tail of it would be hidden).

This would be needed to be able to browse a large collection (e.g. hundreds of articles under a tag) more efficiently. I find that currently a collapsed article still takes up a lot space. On my Chromebook with browser in full-screen mode and with all articles collapsed I can only see 5 articles at a time. In comparison, I can see 43 articles at a time in Surfulater (accessed on my PC from the same browser in Chromebook using Chrome Remote Desktop). That's a huge difference in terms of efficient perusal of the data.

Daly de Gagne wrote:

I've a lot of material in Surfulater but don't want to trust a product
that's not being developed any longer.

I found Surfulater very stable and reliable (on Win7, x64 at least), so it not being developed is not stopping me from using it for the foreseeable future. The only thing that I see that could go wrong is if the web clippers in the various browsers stopped working as the browsers get updated. But I'd hope that we can count on Neville on keeping those up to date.

So am also thinking of WhizFolders.

I haven't tried the latest version, so I don't know if this has been improved, but I found that WF slowed down significantly even when I just added a few larger images, so I didn't find it suitable as a database for rich data, such as websites and images. It's a fine outliner for text otherwise.

Wondering if Workflowy can be modified?

You mean once they've added image support? I can't see it being comparable to Evernote for some time, and I sincerely hope they don't go down that route. I just love the current simplicity and the text-based paradigm.

Daly, at the risk of boring everyone else on this list, here is what I am doing in OneNote -- but bear in mind that I am still in the midst of a transition to this new system, and some details may change in the future.

First I created a notebook called "Morris library" and then within it the following sections: checklist; notes; printed sources; archives; catalogues; temporary.

The "checklist" secction consists of notes on all the individual books and manuscripts that we are describing. The top half of each note is a draft of what will appear on our website; the bottom half consists of rough notes, including things like information from online library catalogues, pasted entries from auction catalogues, etc. When an entry is ready to be posted to our website, we simply copy and paste the upper half of the relevant note into Wordpress (and in Wordpress we are able to add various categories and tags). Of course when we do that, we use a checkbox in OneNote to remind ourselves of which items have already been transferred.

Incidentally, there are several OneNote add-ons that allow you to alphabetize all the notes in a section.

"Notes" is for more miscellaneous background information about the development and dispersal of Morris's library.

"Printed sources" is our list of sources we need to consult.

"Archives" is similar, but it includes archival rather than printed sources.

"Catalogues" is a list of booksellers' and auction catalogues we will be looking at.

"Temporary" is what it sounds like.

I find OneNote's search capabilities excellent, and its ability to read text in images is even better than Evernote's. I am still experimenting with ways of creating my own tags.

Bill

Oops, sorry, I just noticed that you were really asking about how to organize a project like this in Evernote. The basic principles and sections were the same as in OneNote. The main advantage that Evernote offers is its very sophisticated tagging system, so that, for example, I could search for all books formerly in Morris's library that are now in the Yale University Library and on which we had not yet completed our work. That's a bit more difficult to do in OneNote.

Bill

Dr Andus wrote:

Neville Franks wrote:
>And I'd welcome and appreciate feedback from any other Outliner
Software
>members.

Hi Neville,

Thanks for opening up the beta.

I'm very pleased to see Clibu get to this stage. It looks like a simple app, but that hides a lot of complexity. For example real hierarchical tags, and all users are updated in real time so you never need to synchronize data.

is Clibu entirely browser-based, or is there going to be a Windows etc. client?

Yes it is entirely Browser or Web app. What are you wanting from a Windows Desktop app that you don't see us being able to do in a Web app?

is it currently possible to attach screenshots with the Clibu Web Clipper?

Not at this time. You can however paste images from the Clipboard into Clibu articles. So you could use an app or possibly a Browser Extension that took screen shots and then copy & paste those.

As for the current interface, my suggestion would be to add a
"minimalist" or "skeleton" view that displays an article in small font
in a single line, with its main data, such as title, date added, tags
(and maybe URL at the end, so at least the beginning of it would be
visible, even if the tail of it would be hidden).

This is an area that I'm not happy with and definitely needs to be addressed. Would you see this "minimalist" view replacing the current 'Collapsed' articles view or being separate?

Hi Daly,
I forget to actually Reply to your post, so you may not have seen my post asking you about Clibu. If/when you have time, your reply would be helpful.

Neville Franks wrote:

Yes it is entirely Browser or Web app. What are you wanting from a
Windows Desktop app that you don't see us being able to do in a Web app?

1) Being able to work off-line; 2) having a complete local back-up of the data, in case failure in the cloud; 3) hopefully faster search, or even extra features not available or possible in a web app.

Would you see this "minimalist" view replacing the current
'Collapsed' articles view or being separate?

The current view is still useful. I was thinking of an additional option.

A couple of things:

First, I have been using Onenote for some time-first on a PC running XP. I was running Onenote 2010 at that point at the end, but I had started with Onenote 2003. I really liked the program, and used it for a variety of things; web clipping, snippet keeping from documents, and organizing projects. I didn't have a standard way of doing that, but I would set up a new notebook for a project and then keep things related to that project in that notebook. It worked great for that. After moving to the Mac, I cast about for another piece of software that would do the same things that Onenote could do. There were some things that had ways of doing the saving of information, but nothing that gave me the ability to organize the same way that Onenote did. Evernote was close, but I never really took to Evernote. For awhile I have been using Notesuite to clip stuff from the web. I have both the Mac version and the iOS versions so I can get these notes synced across machines. I use Devonthink for big projects, though it takes a bit more planning than Onenote did. And, I once again have Onenote available on my Mac. (You can probably tell that I have a bad case of CRIMPing.)Now with so many choices, I need to sort out which one to use and stick with.
Second, speaking of CRIMPing-I am giving Clibu a try. I never used Surfulator, but I am always willing to give new software a try.

Jim

Bill, you were actually right the first time. I was asking how you'd set it up in OneNote. And I appreciate your response. If possible I'd like to see what it looks like i ON if you can offer screen shots.

Daly

WSP wrote:

Oops, sorry, I just noticed that you were really asking about how to
organize a project like this in Evernote. The basic principles and
sections were the same as in OneNote. The main advantage that Evernote
offers is its very sophisticated tagging system, so that, for example, I
could search for all books formerly in Morris's library that are now in
the Yale University Library and on which we had not yet completed our
work. That's a bit more difficult to do in OneNote.

Bill

Hey Neville, I did get a reply to your post y'day and had written my own response when somehow it got deleted. I will try to recreate it later.

I was actually supposed to reply to a much earlier post of yours some months ago, and did not. Please accept my apologies. I have long respected your work, and your responsiveness to users.

Some time ago I posted to you, not sure where, a list of criteria or deal makers for me with regard to the new program I will try to recreate that list from memory now, and later when I get a moment talk about where Clibu is at today.

Ideally, my deal makers for a program are:
*More than 1 open window so I can write in note and read from others - essential when doing serious writing and drawing on stored info (this is an EN feature off-line)
*Works across platform, ie laptop (I'm in Windows world still), my Android tablet, and in a browser
*Must have ability to store data locally or in cloud of my choice as well as in the program's own cloud - EN data lives on both my laptop and Android as well as in EN loud
*Must have downloadable desktop/laptop version
*Browser version must be as usable as locally based versions (EN used to be but new browser version is like an alien product and clunky t use because it takes up too much space displaying note titles)
*Robust tagging (ideally more so than EN's)
*Folder plus tag structuring - Clibu to me is a step backward from Surfulater in this regard
*Readily available metadata and ability to add own notes (Surfulater offered both these features and it appears Clibu does or is moving in this direction)

Just in last few days I've been again looking at Clibu and will write about that later. I notice it's log-in is very fussy, and that refreshing the screen or going back from my Clibu data base to a generic Clibu page logs me out - this is frustrating and time wasting, but I assume it's part of getting everything function and will be enhanced.

One question I come back and may have asked before, Neville, and that is why Surfulater could not have been continued to be supported?

And if it was still being supprted, why it could not have evolved a net or browser version, keeping its existing feature set?

My main concern w Surfulater was the inability to have more than one open window.

A program that did some things elegantly though now in an out of date way, was Ariadne when under the original developer. Unfortunately Ariadne has veered from its strengths. I appreciated I could have open comment and content windows. Comment windows contained usually notes about the content to which a specific comment window was attached.

I agree with Dr Andus that Clibu needs to have a more compact format on screen because it is too wide open and inefficient if you have 100s or 1000s of notes/articles etc. Worst, most extreme example of being too open is Evernote's current browser version. For me it is completely unworkable in the browser. And the browser version has finally betrayed my trust in management's ability to maintain a serious information manager. Thus this conversation! :)

So while I may not be an actual end user of Clibu I wish you all success with it.

Absolutely minimum for me would be local storage and working off-line.

Cheers,

Daly

In the summer, before I got quite so anxious about Evernote I bought Noteshare Express.

It's quirky. But it does have the more typical Mac style notebook metaphor, fairly well implemented, and it does create its own index on the fly.

In some ways it may be idea for my trauma project, but I don't know if how robust it is with 1,000s of articles.

I am concerned because one of the features for which I bought it doesn't appear to work at all.

And the product hasn't been developed since 2012.

So dare I trust it in the long haul.

Anyone have thoughts on Noteshare Express or intel about its future trajectory. I love the automatic index at the back.

Also today I was looking at stand-alone Zotero. Any thoughts?

I'm anxious because I'm about to launch what for me is a major project, and with it crowd-sourced funding. Once the funding appeal, new web site etc are begun there is no time to putsky around.

Dr Andus wrote:

Neville Franks wrote:
>Yes it is entirely Browser or Web app. What are you wanting from a
>Windows Desktop app that you don't see us being able to do in a Web
app?

> 1) Being able to work off-line;

That is planned using the Browser App.

> 2) having a complete local back-up of the data, in case failure in the cloud;

a) Offline use will do this. b) We will have full export capabilities. c) I'm looking at providing a version you can install on your local pc/server and d) on you own remote server.

> 3) hopefully faster search, or even extra features not available or possible in a web app.

Search will be faster if you are running Clibu locally, however I can't say I personally feel it is slow and I'm a very long way away from where the Clibu server is located. Both full text search and tag filtering use database indexes and in themselves are fast, so it should be just network latency and of course size of articles that impact performance.

> Would you see this "minimalist" view replacing the current 'Collapsed' articles view or being separate?
> The current view is still useful. I was thinking of an additional option.

Thanks. Stay tuned.

I would definitely steer clear of Aquaminds products for the time being. Too many reviews bitterly lamenting lost data/failed synchronisation. It's a shame, because the products have potential. But development appears to have stalled, and customer support is, I gather, non-existent.

If you're using a Mac and really need to be able to handle a lot of data efficiently, then DEVONthink (with its iOS reader) is definitely your friend. The iOS client gets criticism, but if you're using it to read/check info repositories, I've found it perfectly stable; I wouldn't want to do much actual work in it (apart from reading), but the developer is, apparently, creating a brand-new, completely rewritten app.

On the desktop, DEVONthink is pretty much without peer. Stable, powerful, huge range of organisational options, very fast search engine. I wouldn't bother with Office unless you happen to need OCR; Pro is the one I'd recommend.

The other advantage of DEVONthink is that it holds files in standard folder structures (managed by database), but can also index external files/folders in other locations. This gives you added flexibility in case you decide to use some kind of tagging engine (e.g. EagleFiler, or a number of different Windows equivalents) to handle your files on other platforms. Finally, DEVONthink can synchronise copies of its databases to online services (I sync my databases to my Soonr account as a matter of course, but could equally well use OneDrive, Dropbox et al.).

There are other options, of course. Wiznote has come on a lot; it's perhaps the closest thing to Evernote out there (apart from Nimbus Notes). There's also a rather nice Mac app called Metanota Pro, which can synchronise with EverNote (text only) and SimpleNote. It doesn't support tags as such, but uses a kind of tag-folder model that's quite useful.

An app I've been looking at with interest for a while is TagSpaces. Again, not sure if this would do the trick, but it's cross-platform, and appears to be rather powerful (as an organisational tool), but flexible and non-restrictive. It's also open-source, which is a good thing! More details here: http://www.tagspaces.org

For what you're contemplating, TagSpaces might actually be your best bet, based as it is on your computer's existing file/folder structure.

Hi Daly,
Thanks for the reply.

- With Clibu you can have a Knowledge Base open in as many Tabs as you want and I may look at a popup window in the future. You can of course have multiple Browser instances open with Knowledge Bases open in both which gives you separate Windows. And because Clibu updates all Browsers in real time you'll see all changes as they occur.

- Clibu currently works across Windows, Mac & Linux. Tablet and possibly Smartphone versions are planned.

- Off-line use with data stored locally is planned. Also the ability to install Clibu locally and have your own local cloud is planned as is the ability to install it on a Web Server you own. These options cover all the bases I can think off.

> *Must have downloadable desktop/laptop version.

Why and what for when we can do everything you want as described above.

> *Folder plus tag structuring - Clibu to me is a step backward from Surfulater in this regard

The Knowledge Tree in Surfulater was good, but limiting and Tags were an afterthought which sort of worked and were also limited in their use.

Clibu enhances and evolves both of these into one unified Tags Tree. You get the same functionality as the Surfulater Folder tree, but using Tags instead, with the big benefit being that an article can have as many tags as you want, and therefore be in as many tree branches as you want. This is simpler, quicker and better than having to copy articles into multiple folders in Surfulater.

Further the Tags in Clibu are true hierarchical tags, which can be moved in the hierarchy and renamed in an instant. And the Tags filter lets you quickly see just the articles you want.

I'd be interested to know where you see the shortcomings in this?

> I notice it’s log-in is very fussy,

I had to restart Clibu several times yesterday to fix some issues and install a new version and I think the problems you saw were because of this. Once you are logged into Clibu you should stayed logged in and not have the issues you raised. If this happens again please let me know.

> One question I come back and may have asked before, Neville, and that is why Surfulater could not have been continued to be supported?

People want access to their content from any PC (or device) anywhere and they want to share content and enable others to collaborate with them. Surfulater is not capable of meeting any of these needs, whereas Clibu is. The days of installing OS specific desktop apps is slowly coming to an end and instead we are moving our lives to the cloud. Five or so years back I would never have said this and it was never something I would have done, but now most of the apps I use day in day out are in the cloud and I love it. I'm free from the shackles of being tied to my Desktop PC and can do stuff from anywhere and love it. Hence Clibu and not Surfulater. In fact I don't think I've used Surfulater on over 2 years now. As soon as I had the basics of Clibu working I've never looked back.

Neville

You've not mentioned the fact that Clibu is also language-friendly (which Surfulator definitely wasn't!).

But the pervasive Cloud model has, I'm afraid, caused me to back away. Like others here, I like to have total access to/control of my data offline. Ideally through trusted, familiar clients. Hence my preference for desktop apps, rather than the many (excellent, beautifully designed, really very clever – but totally web-oriented) apps that are proliferating out there.

GitHub-based organisers appear to be rapidly growing in popularity, incidentally (by which I mean, organisers/note takers/task managers that use GitHub servers). An interesting development, prevalent among the IT-savvy but with signs that it's growing to embrace the more ordinary/less expert user.

Neville Franks wrote:

>> 1) Being able to work off-line;
That is planned using the Browser App.
>> 2) having a complete local back-up of the data, in case failure in
the cloud;
a) Offline use will do this.

When you say, browser app, do you mean a Chrome app, or any browser being able to access the local data?

If it's going to be browser-based only access to the local data, isn't there a danger that if browsers get a radical update one day but Clibu doesn't get updated (for whatever personal, legal, financial etc. reason that a web-based service could get abandoned), then accessing the data could become a problem?

With an off-line software like Surfulater I can at least continue to have access to my data as long as I have a compatible version of Windows and a PC.

Daly, you and I seem to be having a separate conversation from the rest of the folks on this thread! I'll be happy to give a screenshot at some point in the future, but right now I'm in the midst of making this rather traumatic transition from Evernote to OneNote, and my notes will look messy until I get this all sorted out.

Bill

Maybe a separate topic about Clibu is in order...

For what it's worth I will say that I was, months ago, curious about Clibu. I could not find any screenshots on the net, including on the clibu site, and I could not test it quickly, so I set aside my interest. Upon reading this thread I saw an open beta, so I just tried it. It took me about five minutes to decide it's not for me. Wayyy too slow. Sorry but that's the fact.

I loaded the sample and was quickly mystifed when simple scrolling up and down resulted in slowdowns and pauses. After scrolling all the way down, then scrolling back up slowed down again. Yuck. Equally unacceptable was when I clicked something that narrowed the results, then when I unclicked it back to "all", it apparently had to reload everything.

These kinds of user experiences are why I don't use web apps much. Most of the things I do in desktop apps happen instantly and that's the way I like it.

Offline use with locally stored data would meet my need - which is to not be dependent on a connection or access to the cloud.

Re tag use, and other features, Clibu is too slow for me to test such ones as tags. For sake of discussion I accept they are as robust as you say. For me having folders allows another perspective - I realize one could designate some tags as folder-like by using a symbol in front of those tags to keep them together.

One concern of tags only is the long list of tags which characterize some En databases and are a horror to scroll thru. True hierarchical tags shld help limit tag list length.

I recognize that concerns re speed etc will be dealt with in due course as part of the development process.

Have I left anything out?!

Thanks & cheers,

Daly

Neville Franks wrote:

Hi Daly,
Thanks for the reply.

- With Clibu you can have a Knowledge Base open in as many Tabs as you
want and I may look at a popup window in the future. You can of course
have multiple Browser instances open with Knowledge Bases open in both
which gives you separate Windows. And because Clibu updates all Browsers
in real time you'll see all changes as they occur.

- Clibu currently works across Windows, Mac & Linux. Tablet and possibly
Smartphone versions are planned.

- Off-line use with data stored locally is planned. Also the ability to
install Clibu locally and have your own local cloud is planned as is the
ability to install it on a Web Server you own. These options cover all
the bases I can think off.

>> *Must have downloadable desktop/laptop version.
Why and what for when we can do everything you want as described above.

>> *Folder plus tag structuring - Clibu to me is a step backward from
Surfulater in this regard

The Knowledge Tree in Surfulater was good, but limiting and Tags were an
afterthought which sort of worked and were also limited in their use.

Clibu enhances and evolves both of these into one unified Tags Tree. You
get the same functionality as the Surfulater Folder tree, but using Tags
instead, with the big benefit being that an article can have as many
tags as you want, and therefore be in as many tree branches as you want.
This is simpler, quicker and better than having to copy articles into
multiple folders in Surfulater.

Further the Tags in Clibu are true hierarchical tags, which can be moved
in the hierarchy and renamed in an instant. And the Tags filter lets you
quickly see just the articles you want.

I'd be interested to know where you see the shortcomings in this?

>> I notice it’s log-in is very fussy,
I had to restart Clibu several times yesterday to fix some issues and
install a new version and I think the problems you saw were because of
this. Once you are logged into Clibu you should stayed logged in and not
have the issues you raised. If this happens again please let me know.

>> One question I come back and may have asked before, Neville, and that
is why Surfulater could not have been continued to be supported?

People want access to their content from any PC (or device) anywhere and
they want to share content and enable others to collaborate with them.
Surfulater is not capable of meeting any of these needs, whereas Clibu
is. The days of installing OS specific desktop apps is slowly coming to
an end and instead we are moving our lives to the cloud. Five or so
years back I would never have said this and it was never something I
would have done, but now most of the apps I use day in day out are in
the cloud and I love it. I'm free from the shackles of being tied to my
Desktop PC and can do stuff from anywhere and love it. Hence Clibu and
not Surfulater. In fact I don't think I've used Surfulater on over 2
years now. As soon as I had the basics of Clibu working I've never
looked back.

Neville