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Best software for emergent order
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Posted by Randall Shinn
Oct 6, 2007 at 02:04 PM
Thanks for the suggestions.
I own both Ecco and NoteMap, so I am familiar with single-pane outliners. I tend to agree with Steve Zeoli’s thoughts to throw the information into Zoot, and then shape it into a narrative later.
I have tried Brainstorm in the past, but never seemed to get it’s advantages over either Ecco or NoteMap. However, given the enthusiasm of its users, I just downloaded the latest version to give it another try. As Manfred pointed out, even Brainstorm’s own site makes an effort to differentiate it from traditional outliners, so I will try digging deeper this time.
Randall Shinn
Posted by Chris Thompson
Oct 6, 2007 at 04:08 PM
Brainstorm counts in my mind as an outliner, though it’s more of a peephole outliner (or a two pane outliner without the second pane and with heavy use of clones).
Stephen, give Tinderbox on the Mac a look. It does what Brainstorm does, and substantially more. It also seems to be more actively developed than Brainstorm.
—Chris
Stephen R. Diamond wrote:
>This process is nothing other than brainstorming, broadly construed and extended in
>time—the core function of a true outliner. To me, asking for the best program for your
>purpose tantamount to asking for the most powerful outliner.
>
>I think it’s
>BrainStorm. (And for those who conclude that the Mac has more advanced outlining than
>Windows, I would challenge someone to supply a Mac outliner more powerful than
>BrainStorm. Off course, we may disagree on identifying the core outliner
>functions.)
>
>Randall Shinn wrote:
>>I own Ultra Recall, Zoot, WhizFolders, and
>MyInfo, and I have found them all useful for
>>different kinds of tasks, depending on
>what kind of information structure I need. (I
>>have yet to try OneNote.)
>>
>>Right
>now I am trying to decide which program is most useful
>>for collecting information on
>a kind of random basis (notes, web clippings,
>>thoughts, ideas, etc.) and then
>giving it some kind of order later on as the collection
>>of information grows larger.
>This tends to be information that I might use for
>>creative writing such as materials
>and ideas for projects. (I’m not talking about
>>day-to-day working information or
>record-keeping.)
>>
>>So far I find Zoot the easiest
>>program to throw information
>into without much idea of what I’ll do with it, and then
>>days, weeks, or months later
>do some sorting out. Essentially I’m concerned with
>>developing an emergent
>structure from information from the bottom-up. Trying to
>>create much of a top-down
>structure early in the process would be too restrictive for
>>my purposes.
>>
>>I’m
>curious what program others have found most useful for this sort of
>>task.
>
>>
>>Randall Shinn
Posted by Derek Cornish
Oct 6, 2007 at 07:49 PM
Like Stephen Zeoli, I can’t think of anything better than Zoot.
Zoot can act as a general repository, and its items can immediately or later be classified into broad subject clumps. When it comes to developing a logical argument by way of a single-pane outliner, the Zoot folder tree can be used to mirror sections of the developing argument. At least this is the way I use it.
Once the beta testing is concluded, it looks as though Zoot32 will be able to work even more closely with image repositories (Web Research, Surfulater, etc) and with outlining and drafting programs like WhizFolders, MyInfo, ConnectedText, and so on that offer universal links to their contents.
All this is apart from Zoot’s ability as a PIM, via sync-ing to Outlook. I think it is an amazing program, and it’s the HQ for all my work.
Derek
Posted by Manfred
Oct 7, 2007 at 02:28 AM
I cannot think of a better application for this kind of emergent order than a hypertext system (with outline functionality superimposed on it).
I am thinking of ConnectedText, of course. It allows you to
1. Capture information from all kinds of different sources (Clipboard catcher), and
2. Store it in a powerful database
3. Link entries that seem related on the fly, and easily establish relationships
4. Categorize these entries by applying categories (which can be used like tags)
5. and, as a final step to, order the material in an outline
Just as Zoot, none of these steps alter the underlying information in any fundamental way, and the order is fluid and easily reversible. The outline is just a different view on the material (as are the categories and the links). But going through steps 3 to 5 do a lot to clarify the matter at hand, and when the database has become large enough, serendipity is almost guaranteed.
Manfred
Posted by Hugh Pile
Oct 7, 2007 at 10:31 AM
Derek Cornish wrote:
>Like Stephen Zeoli, I can’t think of anything better than Zoot.
>
>Zoot can act as a
>general repository, and its items can immediately or later be classified into broad
>subject clumps. When it comes to developing a logical argument by way of a single-pane
>outliner, the Zoot folder tree can be used to mirror sections of the developing
>argument. At least this is the way I use it.
>
Another vote for Zoot, with the James Fallows template (which may still be available on the Yahoo Groups Zoot site) explicitly providing the repository-plus-outlining cream topping on the rich Zoot cake.
On the Mac, I also back the suggestion of Tinderbox, which in Version 4 has overcome certain of the criticisms some have made in the past, and with which I am (slowly!) getting to grips. For incremental formalisation and organisation, it is an extraordinary tool (although at an extraordinary price).
The only major overall point I’d make (apart from expense) about Tinderbox is that it’s not really a serious repository of anything except notes. For the perfect system, one would ideally team it with a data-store such as (in order of increasing sophistication) Yojimbo, Eaglefiler or DevonThink Pro. DevonThink would provide what I suppose is the ultimate - its own suggestions, via semantic analysis, of trends of emergent organisation in the data as it accumulated (assuming it contained enough data to accomplish this).