Hi, all.

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot happening in the world of outliners/PIMs this summer, so I thought it might be a good time to take a broader look at the software that's already out there, specifically as it relates to helping writers write.

A powerful outliner is a great tool for writers. But we know there are no truly powerful outliners for Windows. So, I am wondering what you all think is the best application for helping writers with their craft... not counting straight word processors. Here is a list of applications I would consider. It is not exhaustive by any means:

Brainstorm
Idea Mason
Idea Weaver
Writer's Blocks 3
Super Note Card
Liquid Story Binder
Page Four
Rough Draft
WhizFolders

As you can see, I'm mostly looking at tools to help with composition and organization. I'm not talking about those applications which supposedly help you with your style, etc.

My choice for the best of these at this point would be Super Note Card. It provides a lot of helpful features, but in a friendly interface that doesn't inhibit the writing process (which, unfortunately, Idea Mason does). I would give honorary mention to Brainstorm and Page Four.

What do you all think? Have I left out any good applications?

Steve Z.

New Novelist
WritePro
WriteWay Pro
WriteItNow
StoryView
WritersCafe/StoryLines
PowerStructure and PowerWriter
Save The Cat
yWriter

yWriter is probably the most competent. Some of the rest may be defunct/no longer developed (as may be some of those in your list, Stephen).

But by and large certain Mac outliner/writing tools are probably better than any of these, in terms of function, useability and style, as discussed in previous threads.

ndxCards is worth mentioning. It seems amazingly flexible.

SuperNoteCard's outlining is far less powerful than ndxcards, at least it seems on casual inspection of SuperNotecard. There appear to be only two levels of hierarchy, which is probably fine for fiction. Or maybe not; I have never written any fiction since grade school.

A writing environment is probably the most subjective of software choices .I could never live with SuperNoteCard, because of the paltry outlining. To me a writing environment means first a powerful outliner. I collect information in OneNote; outline and brainstorm in MindGenius; link topics to the information in OneNote with MindGenius attach function and OneNote's paragraph hyperlinks--that is, creating the attachments in MindGenius. Then I do a first draft, using the "Notes" sections in MG, hoisted to the last topical node in each branch. (I have up to four topical levels, followed by sometimes many levels of associative notes. Then I export to Word, where I turn topical words into full-sentence headings and do extensive revisions to the body text.

I don't agree that Windows has no powerful outliners, but the difference is partly semantic. I don't know how much of it is just semantic. I think BrainStorm is more powerful than anything I've seen produced for the Macintosh. For one thing, nothing else that I know of has BrainStorm's order mark and gather (my jargon, not BrainStorm's). To me this is a rare example of inventing a core outlining function.

(Brainstorm's weakness in development, it seems to me, is a somewhat rigid insistence on working within the present core infrastructure. An example is the insistence is plain text, although I consider that choice defensible, even correct, for other reasons. What I think BrainStorm really needs is some mechanism for quickly creating a structure of multiple windows, a deficiency that seems incompletely answered by saving a set of multiple windows, although maybe I haven't gotten the hang of how to deploy that feature effectively.)




tshare wrote:

ndxCards is worth mentioning. It seems amazingly flexible.

Stephen,

You are right that SNC's outlining function is not as powerful as ndxCards, but I did want to correct one thing you mention. You can nest "card decks" within card decks, so you can create a hierarchy with more than two levels. You can't, however, make a note card the parent of any other element.

Steve Z.

Stephen R. Diamond wrote:

SuperNoteCard's outlining is far less powerful than ndxcards, at least it seems on
casual inspection of SuperNotecard. There appear to be only two levels of hierarchy,
which is probably fine for fiction. Or maybe not; I have never written any fiction
since grade school.

A writing environment is probably the most subjective of
software choices .I could never live with SuperNoteCard, because of the paltry
outlining. To me a writing environment means first a powerful outliner. I collect
information in OneNote; outline and brainstorm in MindGenius; link topics to the
information in OneNote with MindGenius attach function and OneNote's paragraph
hyperlinks--that is, creating the attachments in MindGenius. Then I do a first
draft, using the "Notes" sections in MG, hoisted to the last topical node in each
branch. (I have up to four topical levels, followed by sometimes many levels of
associative notes. Then I export to Word, where I turn topical words into
full-sentence headings and do extensive revisions to the body text.

I don't agree
that Windows has no powerful outliners, but the difference is partly semantic. I
don't know how much of it is just semantic. I think BrainStorm is more powerful than
anything I've seen produced for the Macintosh. For one thing, nothing else that I know
of has BrainStorm's order mark and gather (my jargon, not BrainStorm's). To me this is
a rare example of inventing a core outlining function.

(Brainstorm's weakness in
development, it seems to me, is a somewhat rigid insistence on working within the
present core infrastructure. An example is the insistence is plain text, although I
consider that choice defensible, even correct, for other reasons. What I think
BrainStorm really needs is some mechanism for quickly creating a structure of
multiple windows, a deficiency that seems incompletely answered by saving a set of
multiple windows, although maybe I haven't gotten the hang of how to deploy that
feature effectively.)




tshare wrote:
>ndxCards is worth mentioning. It seems
amazingly flexible.