What is the best format to export and import an outline with inline notes between different outliners?

Recently I had started moving more data around and I realised that it is less then straightforward. I assumed that OPML could handle this but I have not been able to move outlines with inline notes successfully. Either the inline notes get lost, or the hierarchy gets destroyed (truncated).

Most recently I wanted to get an outline with inline notes out of Freeplane, ideally into another single-pane outliner that can have inline notes. I have tried all kinds of different combinations of two-pane vs. single-pane outliners with or without inline notes, and the only thing that produced an acceptable result was a direct copy and paste from Freeplane to MS Word. Not what I had in mind...

Can OPML even handle inline notes?

The different combinations of outliners I tried this time were TKoutline, Bonsai, Noteliner, OPML editor, Scrivener, Outline 4D, Noteliner, and Word. Some can take OPML, others RTF, others only TXT. What I'm hoping for is a single-pane outliner with inline notes that would recognise both the hierarchy and the notes (so I can hide them when not needed).

Any suggestions for a format or outliner that would allow me a decent import of a Freeplane .MM file (with notes)?

You may want to take a look at this (rather ancient) thread http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/1137
I am sorry to say that I don't think much has changed since then, other than the adoption of the .mm format by more mind mappers.

The way I see it, there are two approaches in exporting outlines:

- All nodes are equal; there's no differentiation between titles and notes. This can be done by tab indented text (which is what you get when direct copying from a mind mapper)

- Tree nodes is one thing, their content (text) is another. OPML can do this, as can the .MM format.

OPML is an XML sub-format and is a very basic (minimal) standard. In practice, many programs exporting OPML will include additional non-standard parameters which other programs will simply ignore.

In the outliner world I consider NoteCase Pro the king of import/export. I just imported a .mm file in NCP with no problem and exported it as OPML, which included the text notes. Unfortunately NCP is a two-pane outliner, not quite what you want.

Dr Andus,

What you want to do should be possible. On my iPad I just exported an iThoughts map to OmniOutliner using OPML and it maintained the hierarchy and the inline text notes, so OPML is certainly capable of that kind of transfer. I guess it depends on the apps involved.

Steve Z.

Alexander/Steve - thanks for your comments. I'm starting to think that in this instance I'm dealing with a Freeplane-specific problem.

My mind map started out life in iThoughtsHD on my iPad. It exported all items and inline notes flawlessly in .mm format, which I opened and modified in Freeplane.

If I import the same IThoughtsHD's .mm file into Bonsai, it imports notes and all perfectly well. However, if I want to import the same .mm file now opened, modified and saved in Freeplane, Bonsai only imports items but not notes.

The damage to the .mm file is permanent because if I send the file back to iThoughtsHD, rename it, resync it, Bonsai is still unable to import the notes. However, when I export the same "damaged" .mm file from iThoughtsHD as .opml, Bonsai **can** import the notes!

This is all very convoluted and mysterious, but at least now I have a way of getting my Freeplane notes into Bonsai...

Just to wrap this thread up... Here is what I wanted to do:
1. Create reading notes in Freeplane (items+notes).
2. Convert them into an outline showing the inline notes, using a single-pane outliner.
3. Import or link them to ConnectedText eventually.

Why not just keep it in Freeplane and read it in its outline view? It does not provide enough options to view the outline hierarchy at selective levels (lacking outline navigation and alternative visualisation tools). This is a large outline (30 pages in Word format).

Solution:
1. Sync Freeplane .mm file with iThoughtsHD on iPad (because other Freeplane exports (OPML, .DOC, .TXT, .XML, even .MM) on the PC either lost my notes or truncated the hierarchy).
2. Export from iThoughsHD as .OPML.
3. Import into Bonsai as OPML.

Although Bonsai can't display inline notes, the note icons can be made to show in a column, and the notes themselves in another column, when you click on the item. Bonsai preserves the hierarchy perfectly, and as levels can be coloured in and zoomed in or collapsed per level, it is easy to read and analyse the outline.

Another solution:
2. Export from iToughtsHD as .docx (either as numbered list or bullet-pointed list).
3. Save as RTF.
4. Import into Bonsai as RTF and export as RTF. (This is needed because O4D didn't recognise other RTF hierarchies.)
5. Import into Outline 4D as RTF.

This is finally a single-pane outliner with inline notes. However, it's not as easy to read it as the Bonsai outline, because either the entire numbering scheme to level 9 is displayed (such as 8.6.5.1.3.1.1), or , if I import them as bullet-points, some extra characters are inserted, such as a second bullet-point, an "o", or a legal paragraph sign. Bonsai is better.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out how to import this data into ConnectedText in a satisfactory way. I could import the OPML file as an outline, but the inline notes would be lost. If I import it as a "topic," the hierarchy gets truncated or not displayed correctly.

Dr Andus wrote:

Unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out how to import this data
into ConnectedText in a satisfactory way. I could import the OPML file
as an outline, but the inline notes would be lost. If I import it as a
"topic," the hierarchy gets truncated or not displayed correctly.

Okay, I've come to terms with that. I'll take that as an opportunity to synthesise work in CT. So the workflow is:
1) Create reading notes in Freeplane. Export to Bonsai.
2) Analyse and annotate further in Bonsai.
3) Create a new CT outline for summarising reading points, and link selected quotes (saved as individual CT topics) to CT outline items.

The downside of this approach is that the Bonsai version will be different from the Freeplane version (though I could try to reimport it as OPML into Freeplane) and that I'm not taking advantage of Freeplane's direct linking capability to CT topics.

On the other hand, higher quality synthesised info ends up in CT, as I'll have a final outline with links to quotes, which could be used for final writing up (for publication).

For what it's worth...

The good news is that WhizFolders can now import OPML (and a few other formats: RTF, text, and sticky notes):

http://whizfolders.com/blog/index.php/import-utility-updated-3-2

The not so good news is that when I tried it, I wasn't able to import the notes contained in my OPML file, only the outline (though that's better than nothing still). Not sure what the problem is, as I was able to import the same OPML file into Bonsai, and the notes were imported just fine.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Dr Andus,
What you want to do should be possible. On my iPad I just exported an
iThoughts map to OmniOutliner using OPML and it maintained the hierarchy
and the inline text notes, so OPML is certainly capable of that kind of
transfer. I guess it depends on the apps involved.

You were right, the problem was not with OPML itself, but with Freeplane's implementation of it. I just realised that Freeplane only exports the outline titles but not the notes in OPML, so that's where the process broke down.

However, if I take the original .MM file, import it into iThoughtsHD on iPad, the iThoughts OPML export also includes the notes.

There is also a problem with Bonsai's .MM import, as it does not import the notes.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out how to import this data
into ConnectedText in a satisfactory way. I could import the OPML file
as an outline, but the inline notes would be lost. If I import it as a
"topic," the hierarchy gets truncated or not displayed correctly.

I managed to get around this problem somewhat by having a kind soul on the CT forum create a CSS file for me that renders a CT topic as a multi-coloured outline (up to level 6) with titles in bold (for all levels) and notes not it bold.

So my export/import process for taking and processing reading notes so far is:

Freeplane .MM > iThoughtsHD .OPML > Bonsai .OTL > Word .HTM (webpage, filtered) > CT topic (with custom CSS)

I take the notes in Freeplane, analyse and evaluate them further in Bonsai, and store them in CT. The other steps (Freeplane to iThoughts, Bonsai to Word) are merely there to transform the files to the right import formats for the next application in the chain.

Dr Andus wrote:

So my export/import process for taking and processing reading notes so
far is:
Freeplane .MM > iThoughtsHD .OPML > Bonsai .OTL > Word .HTM (webpage,
filtered) > CT topic (with custom CSS)

For Bonsai the export should have said .RTF, so here it is again:

Freeplane .MM > iThoughtsHD .OPML > Bonsai .RTF > Word .HTM (webpage, filtered) > CT topic (with custom CSS)