Rightnote and Evernote
Started by WSP
on 4/13/2013
WSP
4/13/2013 2:54 am
Last year there was some discussion here about Rightnote's ability to sync with Evernote, and I noticed today that in the latest version of Rightnote that there is now some improvement in that service. The main things I spotted immediately were that notes now sync in both directions, and RN is at last able to search for text in pasted images that have been OCR'ed in EN.
I did a small test. I think the linking is much better than last year, but it's still not quite ready for prime time. Syncing is as slow as molasses; searching in images does not give you a highlighted word or phrase; and I couldn't make links that were imported from EN work in RN.
Still, it's worth keeping an eye on this. The developer seems to be moving in the right direction. As he points out, linking RN and EN gives you the best of two worlds: the organizational strengths of RN, and the ubiquity on all devices of EN.
Bill
I did a small test. I think the linking is much better than last year, but it's still not quite ready for prime time. Syncing is as slow as molasses; searching in images does not give you a highlighted word or phrase; and I couldn't make links that were imported from EN work in RN.
Still, it's worth keeping an eye on this. The developer seems to be moving in the right direction. As he points out, linking RN and EN gives you the best of two worlds: the organizational strengths of RN, and the ubiquity on all devices of EN.
Bill
Vincek
4/15/2013 7:41 pm
WSP wrote:
Last year there was some discussion here about Rightnote's ability to
sync with Evernote, and I noticed today that in the latest version of
Rightnote that there is now some improvement in that service. The main
things I spotted immediately were that notes now sync in both
directions, and RN is at last able to search for text in pasted images
that have been OCR'ed in EN.
I did a small test. I think the linking is much better than last year,
but it's still not quite ready for prime time.
WSP and others (Alexander, Stephen Zeoli, Dr. Andus, Franz Greiser, MadAboutDana)
Is Rightnote a possible solution to the lack of synthesis and interoperabiity discussed in other recent posts?
Information conveniently captured in Evernote; now what?
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4813
Escaping From the Brain
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4818/0/escaping-from-the-brain
WSP
4/16/2013 12:05 am
Potentially, yes, but as I said earlier, Rightnote is not quite there yet.
I'm following these developments with considerable interest. I don't expect Rightnote ever to offer a full-scale synthesis of data, but it should be able to provide at least the standard outlining capabilities of a good two-pane note-taker.
Like many others, I find Evernote excellent for gathering and storing information but comparatively weak in organizing it. I am hoping that some other developer(s) will take up the slack.
Bill
I'm following these developments with considerable interest. I don't expect Rightnote ever to offer a full-scale synthesis of data, but it should be able to provide at least the standard outlining capabilities of a good two-pane note-taker.
Like many others, I find Evernote excellent for gathering and storing information but comparatively weak in organizing it. I am hoping that some other developer(s) will take up the slack.
Bill
Dr Andus
4/16/2013 8:41 pm
Vincek wrote:
Well, does RN provide analytical tools? I'm sceptical about hierarchical trees in general as the ultimate solution for database organisation. Hierarchy is important as one particular form of analysis, but it has limitations once you're dealing with masses of data.
I suspect that once you have a huge amount of data, probably the 20/80 rule kicks in, where 20% is important, while the rest can be tagged as #Garbage. :)
Also, what is the rate of new notes being created? If the flow is very fast, then some specialist tool is needed that can just hoover up info and sort them out into folders more or less automatically, based on some rules. Is that what Zoot does?
Is Rightnote a possible solution to the lack of synthesis and
interoperabiity discussed in other recent posts?
Well, does RN provide analytical tools? I'm sceptical about hierarchical trees in general as the ultimate solution for database organisation. Hierarchy is important as one particular form of analysis, but it has limitations once you're dealing with masses of data.
I suspect that once you have a huge amount of data, probably the 20/80 rule kicks in, where 20% is important, while the rest can be tagged as #Garbage. :)
Also, what is the rate of new notes being created? If the flow is very fast, then some specialist tool is needed that can just hoover up info and sort them out into folders more or less automatically, based on some rules. Is that what Zoot does?
Vincek
4/16/2013 10:19 pm
I just spent (wasted) several hours trying out RightNote. In fairness to the developer, it gets very good reviews from almost all users, and I can see that it could work well as a standalone or primary program.
But it doesn't fill the GREAT BIG HOLE in my workflow -- items 2 & 3:
1) Capture (Many options. For me, Evernote)
2) Filter
3) Synthesize
4) Produce (Many options. For me, Scrivener)
i.e., the issues previously raised and discussed in the post:
Information conveniently captured in Evernote; now what?
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4813
...or put another way, IMHO and for MY workflow, RightNote is not a suitable front-end program to pull and organize data from Evernote.
As WSP points out, yes there is some interfacing capability between RightNote and Evernote, but it's not ready for prime time. I'd call it kludgy.
I have 3,100 notes in Evernote. About 2/3 are filed in about two dozen different notebooks; the remaining items are in a category I think of as a junk drawer -- it's where I throw stuff that doesn't have a natural, discrete place to go.
For those not familiar with Evernote, one of the biggest complaints is that Evernote only allows for 2 levels of structure in Notebooks. Not enough for me. Some argue that tags can make up the differences, but I say "no way" (this is really a separate discussion).
RightNote's hierarchy capabilities are much more refined. Using their terminology, you can create multiple levels of hierarchy using notebooks, pages, sibling notes, and child notes.
RightNote has the ability to pull from multiple Evernote notebooks, but you can only use one Evernote notebook per each RightNote notebook. This is a deal killer given that 2/3 of my notes in Evernote are already reasonably filed into notebooks.
A possible workaround is to create multiple notebooks in RightNote, but the program requires you to open Notebooks separately. Then you are able to access different Evernote notebooks aligned with a distinct Rightnote notebook, but again this is kludgy and the process of transferring notes is technically possible but time consuming and confusing. I don't see an easy way to have 2 notebooks open at once, and besides I want to have all my research and notes organized in 1 notebook, not many.
Dr. Andus asked about RightNote analytical capabilities. They are fairly limited -- I'd still have to do most of the synthesis in my head.
Very frustrating. With 55M Evernote users, you'd think either Evernote or an outside developer would create a front end that allows for better, more detailed organizing and synthesis of Evernote data. But not yet, so I wait....
But it doesn't fill the GREAT BIG HOLE in my workflow -- items 2 & 3:
1) Capture (Many options. For me, Evernote)
2) Filter
3) Synthesize
4) Produce (Many options. For me, Scrivener)
i.e., the issues previously raised and discussed in the post:
Information conveniently captured in Evernote; now what?
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4813
...or put another way, IMHO and for MY workflow, RightNote is not a suitable front-end program to pull and organize data from Evernote.
As WSP points out, yes there is some interfacing capability between RightNote and Evernote, but it's not ready for prime time. I'd call it kludgy.
I have 3,100 notes in Evernote. About 2/3 are filed in about two dozen different notebooks; the remaining items are in a category I think of as a junk drawer -- it's where I throw stuff that doesn't have a natural, discrete place to go.
For those not familiar with Evernote, one of the biggest complaints is that Evernote only allows for 2 levels of structure in Notebooks. Not enough for me. Some argue that tags can make up the differences, but I say "no way" (this is really a separate discussion).
RightNote's hierarchy capabilities are much more refined. Using their terminology, you can create multiple levels of hierarchy using notebooks, pages, sibling notes, and child notes.
RightNote has the ability to pull from multiple Evernote notebooks, but you can only use one Evernote notebook per each RightNote notebook. This is a deal killer given that 2/3 of my notes in Evernote are already reasonably filed into notebooks.
A possible workaround is to create multiple notebooks in RightNote, but the program requires you to open Notebooks separately. Then you are able to access different Evernote notebooks aligned with a distinct Rightnote notebook, but again this is kludgy and the process of transferring notes is technically possible but time consuming and confusing. I don't see an easy way to have 2 notebooks open at once, and besides I want to have all my research and notes organized in 1 notebook, not many.
Dr. Andus asked about RightNote analytical capabilities. They are fairly limited -- I'd still have to do most of the synthesis in my head.
Very frustrating. With 55M Evernote users, you'd think either Evernote or an outside developer would create a front end that allows for better, more detailed organizing and synthesis of Evernote data. But not yet, so I wait....
WSP
4/17/2013 1:05 am
I'm certainly not ready to take the plunge on Rightnote, but I do think it's worth watching.
May I offer a somewhat cynical dissent about "synthesis" (which seems to be increasingly the Holy Grail of this forum)? There are certain kinds of data that lend themselves to analysis through a spreadsheet or a heavy-duty database program, but the sort of information that I collect -- mainly historical and literary in nature -- really can only be interpreted by the human mind. I like a two-pane program because it makes simple hierarchical relationships clear, and through cross-linking and tags I can work out other connections. But the interpretation of what it all means (i.e. its synthesis) is a strenuous intellectual task that I'm not prepared to outsource to any software.
At a more practical level, I should add that I wrote my last book using MyInfo (an excellent two-pane note-taker), and right now I'm working on another book with most of my notes in Evernote. There's no doubt that Evernote is organizationally challenged (despite its other virtues), and I'm struggling a bit with it. But I do believe and hope that eventually someone will create a better front end for my thousands of notes in Evernote.
Bill
May I offer a somewhat cynical dissent about "synthesis" (which seems to be increasingly the Holy Grail of this forum)? There are certain kinds of data that lend themselves to analysis through a spreadsheet or a heavy-duty database program, but the sort of information that I collect -- mainly historical and literary in nature -- really can only be interpreted by the human mind. I like a two-pane program because it makes simple hierarchical relationships clear, and through cross-linking and tags I can work out other connections. But the interpretation of what it all means (i.e. its synthesis) is a strenuous intellectual task that I'm not prepared to outsource to any software.
At a more practical level, I should add that I wrote my last book using MyInfo (an excellent two-pane note-taker), and right now I'm working on another book with most of my notes in Evernote. There's no doubt that Evernote is organizationally challenged (despite its other virtues), and I'm struggling a bit with it. But I do believe and hope that eventually someone will create a better front end for my thousands of notes in Evernote.
Bill
dan7000
4/17/2013 9:53 pm
I've looked at the RN/EN combination too and have come to the same conclusion as stated above - good idea, but not ready for primetime. Also, I don't want my notes tethered to one windows machine as they are with Rightnote.
I have high hopes for TuskTools TreeLiner. http://www.moreproductivenow.com/tusktools_treeliner.html
It looks like what a lot of people are asking for: a way to reorganize your EN notes in new ways, including an outline.
But sadly, I signed up for the private beta about 6 months ago and still have not heard anything.
I have high hopes for TuskTools TreeLiner. http://www.moreproductivenow.com/tusktools_treeliner.html
It looks like what a lot of people are asking for: a way to reorganize your EN notes in new ways, including an outline.
But sadly, I signed up for the private beta about 6 months ago and still have not heard anything.
Dr Andus
4/17/2013 11:34 pm
WSP wrote:
Sure, but a software tool can still help you with a) analysis and b) synthesis of qualitative information, especially when it becomes a huge mass of qualitative data (which is the issue here) and when the work might need to be carried out at multiple sites.
Analysis is usually done with granularising (breaking up text, cloning etc,), tagging, categorising, ordering hierarchically, then ordering the tags, categories etc. themselves. Multiple search options facilitate this process. Producing customised reports of the results of analysis is also helpful. Linking items (and to other files etc.) can be used both as parts of analysis and synthesis. Tools for abstracting conclusions would be required.
Synthesis then could be understood as rearranging the material (or the findings it yields) into a new shape, once one is informed by the results of the analysis, possibly to answer a central question or to make a new point or create a new piece of work. Synthesis would require having good visualisation options of the analysis results, ability to rearrange hierarchies easily, link items in a new arrangement, and generally produce the new work.
Professional qualitative data analysis (CAQDAS) software now address many of these issues, though not equally well. The tools we seem to be discussing on these forums tend to focus on (specialise in) some sub-aspects of these CAQDAS tools (and often do them better), but individually lack the integration of analysis, reporting, and synthesis that CAQDAS tools have.
I wish the two worlds (academic CAQDAS tools and the world of PIM, outliners, note-takers etc.) would borrow ideas from each other more..
May I offer a somewhat cynical dissent about "synthesis" (which seems to
be increasingly the Holy Grail of this forum)? There are certain kinds
of data that lend themselves to analysis through a spreadsheet or a
heavy-duty database program, but the sort of information that I collect
-- mainly historical and literary in nature -- really can only be
interpreted by the human mind. I like a two-pane program because it
makes simple hierarchical relationships clear, and through cross-linking
and tags I can work out other connections. But the interpretation of
what it all means (i.e. its synthesis) is a strenuous intellectual task
that I'm not prepared to outsource to any software.
Sure, but a software tool can still help you with a) analysis and b) synthesis of qualitative information, especially when it becomes a huge mass of qualitative data (which is the issue here) and when the work might need to be carried out at multiple sites.
Analysis is usually done with granularising (breaking up text, cloning etc,), tagging, categorising, ordering hierarchically, then ordering the tags, categories etc. themselves. Multiple search options facilitate this process. Producing customised reports of the results of analysis is also helpful. Linking items (and to other files etc.) can be used both as parts of analysis and synthesis. Tools for abstracting conclusions would be required.
Synthesis then could be understood as rearranging the material (or the findings it yields) into a new shape, once one is informed by the results of the analysis, possibly to answer a central question or to make a new point or create a new piece of work. Synthesis would require having good visualisation options of the analysis results, ability to rearrange hierarchies easily, link items in a new arrangement, and generally produce the new work.
Professional qualitative data analysis (CAQDAS) software now address many of these issues, though not equally well. The tools we seem to be discussing on these forums tend to focus on (specialise in) some sub-aspects of these CAQDAS tools (and often do them better), but individually lack the integration of analysis, reporting, and synthesis that CAQDAS tools have.
I wish the two worlds (academic CAQDAS tools and the world of PIM, outliners, note-takers etc.) would borrow ideas from each other more..
Vincek
4/18/2013 2:59 pm
dan7000 wrote:
I have high hopes for TuskTools TreeLiner.
http://www.moreproductivenow.com/tusktools_treeliner.html
It looks like what a lot of people are asking for: a way to reorganize
your EN notes in new ways, including an outline.
But sadly, I signed up for the private beta about 6 months ago and still
have not heard anything.
Dan7000,
v1.0 of TuskTools is now available for a free trial:
http://www.moreproductivenow.com/tusktools_calendar.html#Download
I think I'll give it a whack.
Vince
dan7000
4/18/2013 5:03 pm
Vincek wrote:
dan7000 wrote:
>
>I have high hopes for TuskTools TreeLiner.
>http://www.moreproductivenow.com/tusktools_treeliner.html
>It looks like what a lot of people are asking for: a way to reorganize
>your EN notes in new ways, including an outline.
>
>But sadly, I signed up for the private beta about 6 months ago and
still
>have not heard anything.
Dan7000,
v1.0 of TuskTools is now available for a free trial:
http://www.moreproductivenow.com/tusktools_calendar.html#Download
I think I'll give it a whack.
Vince
The free trial is for a product called TuskTools Calendar. That's just a calendar app. TuskTools TreeLiner is an outliner -- check out the link I posted above for a demo video that looks really cool. Unfortunately I don't think TreeLiner is available anywhere.
Alexander Deliyannis
4/18/2013 11:07 pm
As I understand, the main TuskTools concept is to provide various ways to organize one's Evernotes: chronologically, hierarchically etc. The Calendar is now out of beta and I can say it works quite well. I assume the Outline is next on the list. This is from the developer's recent message: "I have a lot of great new features planned for TuskTools Calendar going forward. Your purchase helps allow me to continue enhancing the product, as well as to develop additional tools to make Evernote even better and more powerful for you. "