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Posted by MadaboutDana
Mar 11, 2013 at 08:59 PM
Funnily enough, I’ve been reaching the same conclusion re: task management. Currently, I’ve gone back to Carbonfin Outliner (and its web equivalent) for managing all my work - the information density is perfect. On the downside, it doesn’t hoist, and tags are confined to lists, not to list items!
The other cross-platform apps I’m keeping a keen eye on are:
- Todoist: a very good outline-based task manager, with a very nice (fast) web interface. New apps are due out for iOS at any moment, and the Android app is already fairly polished (although the outlining isn’t great). The Windows desktop version is rather good.
- SlickTasks: a wonderful, new iOS app that synchronises with a web version. Very cheap, and very quick. And a proper outliner, too! But the information density isn’t great (it’s a little too generously proportioned on iOS, which means you have to scroll about quite a lot to see everything). On the other hand, it does tags, and it hoists, too. Oh, and it’s got a nice search function (so does Todoist, actually). And it’s got a gorgeous interface. Still a bit of divergence apparent between web and iOS apps, but that’s true of other apps, too (e.g. Wunderlist).
- EssentialPIM: already a powerful desktop app for Windows, they do a nice Android app and a reasonable iPhone app. Once they produce an iPad app, they’ll be worth using in earnest. The synchronisation is still a little dodgy, however. But worth watching! EssentialPIM generally produce the goods, eventually.
- Doit.im: the latest version (iOS and Android, plus web version, plus Windows desktop version for Pro users) has introduced subtasks. I haven’t, I admit, tried them out yet, but I’m looking forward to a play later this evening.
Finally, I’ll just mention BiteHippo, a nice little iOS app from the Ukraine: the very responsive, friendly team have promised that this will include outlining in the near future (i.e. subtasks), and it’s already got a nice set of simple features (plus a pleasantly whimsical ‘feel’). I use it for jotting stuff down rapidly prior to putting it into a ‘serious’ task manager, but BiteHippo might eventually become such a thing itself…
Cheers,
Bill
Posted by Dr Andus
Mar 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM
MadaboutDana wrote:
Funnily enough, I’ve been reaching the same conclusion re: task
>management. Currently, I’ve gone back to Carbonfin Outliner (and its web
>equivalent) for managing all my work - the information density is
>perfect. On the downside, it doesn’t hoist, and tags are confined to
>lists, not to list items!
Bill - in that case do check out Workflowy, as it addresses both the hoisting and the tags problem. The iOS app also syncs more or less automatically every few seconds after changes, as opposed to Carbonfin’s manual sync.
In theory I’ve been a long-time Carbonfin user, but in reality I’ve been using it only here and there, partly because the syncing between multiple devices is inconvenient. The thing about Workflowy is that chances are when you log on to your PC’s browser, the changes you’ve made on your iOS device will be already there.
But I’m only talking about task management. For actual mobile outlining (for writing) I’d still use Carbonfin.
I’m starting to think that Workflowy is a killer app, in the sense that they’ve solved 3 long-standing problems of task management apps:
1) how to deal with the fact that a growing flat or hierarchical list pushes older tasks deep down, until they get moved out of sight;
2) how to focus on just one part of the list, especially if the list is very large (100s or 1000s of tasks);
3) how to find specific tasks that share a common characteristic (e.g. equally urgent, due on a certain day).
The solution:
1) ability to create hierarchies of unlimited depth;
2) ability to zoom into a hierarchy level with a single click/tap;
3) ability to use tags, which, when pulled up in a search, show their entire breadcrumb trail;
4) ability to search for entire database or per hierarchy level, and shows breadcrumb trail;
5) do all of the above very fast and sync with server almost immediately.
6) it is free-form, in the sense that you decide what a project, a context, a task, a tag, and the overall architecture of the whole thing is. And can be easily restructured, as it grows.
This is why it reminds me of a particular desktop wiki solution ;)
Posted by Alexander Deliyannis
Mar 16, 2013 at 08:52 PM
Dr Andus wrote:
> USD49 annually is a bit steep though for the Pro version of what still seems a beta in many respects (if we compare it to the free or very cheap other iOS apps). On the other hand the unlimited hierarchies and hoisting are pretty ingenious. I’ll have to see when I run out of my free 500 monthly tasks…
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
> An important consideration, it seems to me, with one of these subscription-based web apps is where are you if the company goes out of business, raises their prices, changes their policies, changes their system in ways you don’t like, proves to have porous security, or you just can’t afford it any more?
Dr Andus wrote:
>Thanks to its simplicity (so far), this is not as much of a problem with Workflowy, as the Pro version comes with Dropbox backup and even in the free version it’s very easy to export it as a simple list (though one would need to remember to do that regularly).
Dr Andus wrote:
> [re Wunderlist] Moreover, the normal annual cost would come to USD59.88, which is 10 dollars more than Workflowy.
Well, Checkvist Pro costs 38 USD per year and, among others, provides daily backups in OPML format for the last ten days; I find it a reasonable insurance approach.
https://checkvist.com/auth/pricing
Posted by Cassius
Mar 16, 2013 at 09:08 PM
Dr Andus wrote:
>I’m starting to think that Workflowy is a killer app, ...
>The solution:
>1) ability to create hierarchies of unlimited depth;
>2) ability to zoom into a hierarchy level with a single click/tap;
>3) ability to use tags, which, when pulled up in a search, show their
>entire breadcrumb trail;
>4) ability to search for entire database or per hierarchy level, and
>shows breadcrumb trail;
>5) do all of the above very fast and sync with server almost
>immediately.
>6) it is free-form, in the sense that you decide what a project, a
>context, a task, a tag, and the overall architecture of the whole thing
>is. And can be easily restructured, as it grows.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————
The example shown for WorkFlowy shows only short notes. Can it include many paragraphs or pages in a single note, the way GrandView did and Inspiration does?
Posted by Cassius
Mar 17, 2013 at 01:54 AM
I probably am among the eldest of you, perhaps the eldest (72). Thus, throughout my career I have used different sets of tools as technology progressed. In high school and as an undergraduate, I used pencil and paper, books, and slide rules. (A slide rule scale I invented at age 17 went on the Apollo moon flights.)
As a graduate student, Ph.D mathematics candidate, and later a professor, I used pencil and paper, books, and an Olivetti Lettera 22 lightweight typewriter. Perhaps I should mention the furniture: Table, chair and bed. The bed is where I did almost all of the research for my Ph.D. The Lettera 22 also allowed me to type much of my dissertation there.
Then, as an operations research analyst, I used pencil and paper, books, and secretaries for typing. Later, I added a dumb terminal connected to a VAX computer and the statistical program SPSS. Finally, the PC arrived and as soon as GrandView became available, I used it for everything: Saving references, organizing my research and writing final copy. I used its keyboard macro facility to create printer commands to produce printable mathematical formulas. Alas, with the introduction of Windows XP, GrandView didn’t work very well, so I eventually switched to Inspiration, Jot+, Word, and the NCSS statistical package. Occasionally, I also used Excel. (It was relatively straightforward to convert GrandView files into Inspiration files.)
Since retiring, my needs are less: I still use the now moribund Jot+, but may someday convert the files to Ultra Recall Pro. I also still use Inspiration and, until recently, used myBase for saving Web pages. However, I lately have replaced myBase with a TreePad Business “catalog” file in which I store links to Internet sites along with (usually) short notes.
A few final notes: Only once have I developed a work flow on paper or in a computer file. That was developed using Inspiration’s diagramming facility and it was to give to colleagues a workflow methodology for doing safety (and other) benefit analyses. I never created a workflow on paper/computer for myself. (In school, when required to produce an outline before writing a paper, I always wrote the paper first and then the outline—the teachers/professors never knew.) I attribute much of this “internal” organizing to my mother, who repeatedly admonished me, as a child, to “think for yourself.”
Finally, should any of you ever have occasion to analyze or write about a manufacturing or other process involving hands-on workers, I offer this advice, which I learned for myself at the tender age of 23. Put on your hard hat, steel toed shoes, and go down to the manufacturing floor. Talk to the people who are ACTUALLY DOING THE WORK and watch what they do. Most managers, many engineers, and even many foremen have NO IDEA as to what is actually happening. Do not ask hands-on people to complete paper surveys—the results will likely be hilarious reflections of their cynical opinions of management.