Hopefully not too far off topic, I'm wondering if anybody can point me towards a white board software, specifically one that imitates as closely as possible using a white board with just sticky notes and a pen.

I've tried OneNote and Vue to do this, for example, but always spend more time fiddling with the objects on the screen than penning the structure. For example, these programs often require the "square" of the sticky note and its text to be added separately, so that they also have to be moved separately. I've looked at specialist packages such as Open-Sankoré and NoteateIt, but they're way over the top for my minimal needs.

I don't want to have to resort to buying a real white board - horrendously expensive and space wasting - and I've probably trialled loads of programs that would help me but which I can't bring to mind any more. Has anybody any pointers?

Much obliged!

Graham

Try Story Turbo (we've discussed it here recently). Price has been recently dropped down from around $5 to 99c, but there is no guarantee that it's going to stay that way (it was 99c and then suddenly put up to $4.95 or something like that a couple of months ago).

http://www.storyturbo.com/

Graham:

Microsoft had a lab project called "Sticky Sorter". I installed it and found it useful. I did a search for you and I think this is it: http://allmyapps.com/apps/stickysorter-organize-notes . I think Microsoft has shut down the project.

Charles

@ Dr Andus Thanks but wow! The most user unfriendly, obtuse and circuitous route to allow somebody to download a trial version of software I've come across in a long time. And that for a 3 day trial! From what I see I can't draw on that story board. I literally want to create a paste and draw white board interface (a digital version of an office white board), without the need to find arrow gifs, paste them, position them. rotate them and so on - that's what I'm finding is getting in the way with the other programs I've tried.

@ CRC Thanks - another circuitous route - this time requiring AllMyApps to be installed. It doesn't work on my PC, but I do remember trialling this some time ago and then, at least, I couldn't draw on the board if I remember correctly.

Graham Rhind wrote:

From what I see I can't draw on that story board. I literally want to
create a paste and draw white board interface (a digital version of an
office white board), without the need to find arrow gifs, paste them,
position them. rotate them and so on - that's what I'm finding is
getting in the way with the other programs I've tried.

I'm not sure if I fully understand what you're after then. By "drawing" do you mean by hand (freehand) using a touch screen or some kind of an input device?

If not, then it sounds like you're after a concept mapping software. I'm surprised you said in VUE you had to enter boxes and text separately because you can just start typing when a new box is created, so it should be one click only. You can customise the VUE node to look like a yellow post-it note (if that's what you're after) and I thought the Rapid Prototyping mode was a pretty quick way of entering and linking data.

You may also want to check this thread about virtual coarkboards:
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/3934/25

Dr Andus wrote:

I'm not sure if I fully understand what you're after then. By "drawing"
do you mean by hand (freehand) using a touch screen or some kind of an
input device?

Exactly. I use a pen/graphic pad instead of a mouse.

I'm surprised you said in VUE you had to enter boxes and text separately
because you can just start typing when a new box is created, so it
should be one click only. You can customise the VUE node to look like a
yellow post-it note (if that's what you're after) and I thought the
Rapid Prototyping mode was a pretty quick way of entering and linking
data.

You're right, which is why I said "these programs often" in my original post, not referring to VUE specifically. I did start off this project (a new book) in VUE, but the graphic soon became too complex and I felt I was fiddling too much with buttons and choosing drawing modes and so on, which was distracting. I wondered if there was a simpler (more analogous with the analogue world) method, hence my request. I might be looking for something that isn't there, but I thought the people on this forum would be the ones to know :-)

I been using StickySorter from Microsoft Research to do quick and easy affinity diagrams.

I'm spending some time to learn Note Anytime to do some more sketchy stuff. It is available for WIn8, ipad/iphone, and soon android.

http://product.metamoji.com/en/anytime/

-Bill

@Bill There's something similar on my Samsung Note but what I'm trying to visualise is horrendously complex - I had about 100 nodes and 500 links in the VUE graphic I attempted before despair set in, so I'll need something that'll work on a larger screen. Or I'll have to wallpaper my house with cork and do it that way ...

Graham Rhind wrote:

@Bill There's something similar on my Samsung Note but what I'm trying
to visualise is horrendously complex - I had about 100 nodes and 500
links in the VUE graphic I attempted before despair set in, so I'll need
something that'll work on a larger screen. Or I'll have to wallpaper my
house with cork and do it that way ...

It sounds like you've got two distinct issues: 1) to create nodes with your particular input device quickly, and 2) deal with the complexity of an ever-growing massive concept map. So you could use two different solutions to deal with that. For 1) a software that can capture your drawings in a concept map and save them as a particular file (e.g. image file), and 2) a software to organise and analyse the data to reduce complexity.

One way to deal with that could be to modularise your data: save manageable chunks of the VUE concept map as separate image files, and then use a PIM or wiki to organise them.

Or use a mind mapper to attach the image files to mind map nodes, which can then be reorganised and collapsed to reduce complexity.

But if you really need to see the whole thing in one view, then printing out might be the way to go. A cheap display solution is to hang up some bedsheets on the wall and use dressmaker pins to pin up the printouts.

@Graham Rhind: Not sure whether this might be of use. It's possibly a bit of an academic "Thneed", but I have occasionally seen it put to good use.
Compendium: http://compendium.open.ac.uk/institute/download/download.htm

Graham Rhind wrote:

@ CRC Thanks - another circuitous route - this time requiring AllMyApps
to be installed. It doesn't work on my PC, but I do remember trialling
this some time ago and then, at least, I couldn't draw on the board if I
remember correctly.

I have StickySorter installed and I am quite sure that it does not require the installation of AllMyApps. That said, given your various clarifications, it definitely is not the kind of software you are looking for.

You might want to try this simple offering instead:
http://classicwhiteboard.com/index.php

@Slartibartfast - I've tried Compendium before when also initially trialling VUE - I think it suffers from overcomplexity. I did download again and try the version 2 beta, but I still can't get my head around it. For my current purposes, at least, it would involve too much pecking around to try to find what buttons to press to get a basic layout.

@Alexander - yes, I looked at Classic Whiteboard. That's just a little too much on the simple side - I'd need an infinite board (this one has fixed borders), and being able to drag the objects around would be an asset. But it's in the right direction.

@ Dr Andus - I was tending in that direction too. The issue is that so many of the nodes and groups are related to so many others that it was difficult to create chunks independent of the whole. I really need a full 3D solution, but also without the complexity - ain't that always the way. I'm tending to think that printing out out chunks of the whole then linking those in some physical way (thread, pins, whatever, though my wall space is severely limited) might make it more manageable.

Thanks for all the suggestions to date. Any other offerings gratefully accepted!

Graham

Graham,

Now that you have discribed it, your project is way out of my scale and so is the Axon Idea Processor. Somethines I visit the site http://web.singnet.com.sg/~axon2000/index.htm and wonder what I might use it for. It came to mind as you related your scaling issue.

-Bill

Thanks @Bill. That reminds me of VUE with a price tag, and also of a package which was mentioned on this forum and was in beta around the end of 2011 and start of 2012, with a developer I think based in Chile. Can anybody, on the off chance, remember that software's name?

Graham Rhind wrote:

Can anybody, on the off chance, remember that software's name?

Found it! Think Composer: http://www.thinkcomposer.com/

Story Turbo is now free:

http://www.storyturbo.com/

They are also trialling a web-based version, but I found it buggy for now:

http://storylive.com

Not referenced in this thread, but IIRC in the corkboard thread mentioned above (and also in previous threads) is Curio - a pretty damn wonderful realisation of the digital whiteboard concept. For the Mac, and not inexpensive. Reviewed comprehensively in its latest incarnation by Steve Z. here: http://mac.appstorm.net/reviews/productivity-review/curio-8-the-ultimate-project-workshop-gets-better/

If you have a Mac with Lion or Mountain Lion installed, find yourself planning a project that is reasonably complex and may have a visual dimension, and can justify the ticket, I don't know of anything better.

Graham Rhind wrote:

Graham Rhind wrote:
>Can anybody, on the off chance, remember that software's name?

Found it! Think Composer: http://www.thinkcomposer.com/

----
I have lurked on this site for over a year, finding the contributions very interesting. I have now progressed to registering and asking for some advice.

Can I ask Graham whether, now that 6 months have passed, he has actually used Think Composer?

I am going to give it a try since I need a method of illustration to others (individuals, not classes) of how various EU Regulations and their national implementations and their guidance actually work and interlink. Some of these can amount to at least 50,000 pages of text on some topics such as the controls on Pharmaceuticals.
I do not need to concern myself with detail such as the chemistry, only with the way that compliance can be sought at the simple level such as 'herbal extract - do this' and 'industrially produced - do that'.

As you may gather I am attempting to produce a straightforward illustration of the main principles and link to the detail. Most software only allows for a level of abstraction without such detail as the penalty for certain offences.
Currently I keep all the originals as PDFs under various categories on my PC.

The text of the passages relevant to the individuals are extracted to Connected Text which I adopted after trying Zotero, Ultra Recall, etc etc . . .after reading Dr Andus's contributions on this site and his own very comprehensive site.

At first glance at their site Think Composer looks promising, unless anybody knows different.

Thank you

JerryNotts

Jerry,

I have registered ThinkComposer and I've done some fiddling with it, though not as much as I had intended. It's powerful, and the developer is very communicative and continues to update the software, but I found the interface somewhat awkward (probably only because I use a pen and tablet to input rather than a mouse).

My own initial use for it is to graphically illustrate a very complex wiki (also in ConnectedText) - the wiki needs to be sorted out before I start on the graphics, which is why I haven't worked with ThinkComposer a great deal as yet. I'm also mulling over using KnowledgeBaseBuilder (http://www.buildyourmap.com/ but that needs a little work before it's really useful - it's been updated regularly but there's been a little pause in its development so I haven't registered that one yet.

I don't know if that helps at all!

Graham

Of course if you were using a Mac you could use Numbers, which is a truly brilliant whiteboard app (yes, I know it's supposed to be a spreadsheet, but I can honestly say I've never yet used it for calculating anything!). For digitised input, you could always use the iPad version (produces very nice PDFs).

Another lateral-thinking option would be TreeSheets (on PC, Mac and Linux), which isn't exactly a whiteboard but could be used as one, kind of.

Just a thought!
Bill

JerryNotts wrote:

Can I ask Graham whether, now that 6 months have passed, he has actually
used Think Composer?

Hi JerryNotts - welcome to the forum. I haven't looked at Think Composer since its beta stage, so I'd be interested in hearing about it more, as it looks like it had a few more updates in the past year or so.

I am going to give it a try since I need a method of illustration to
others (individuals, not classes) of how various EU Regulations and
their national implementations and their guidance actually work and
interlink.

As you may gather I am attempting to produce a straightforward
illustration of the main principles and link to the detail. Most
software only allows for a level of abstraction without such detail as
the penalty for certain offences.
Currently I keep all the originals as PDFs under various categories on
my PC.

My question would be whether your needs are to produce something quickly (brainstorming, concept development) or to make something look good (presentational purposes), as for me those are two different categories of software (although if one puts the time in, possibly the first category can also produce decent visuals).

In the first one I would put VUE, CmapTools etc., in the second category I'd put SmartDraw and the likes. SmartDraw can be expensive the first time, though they do have offers fairly regularly, and once you're on the bandwagon, the upgrades get cheaper (though I stopped with v. 2012).

Anyway, since SmartDraw 2012 they have some more advanced functions for presenting complex information, such as "information hubs" or "visual gateways." Here is some more info on this:
http://www.smartdraw.com/solutions/information-access.htm

Thanks to the 2 responders.

I have looked through all the software that seems appropriate.

Although Connected Text is very good for storing and commenting on the information I am gleaning I had thought that a visual description would assist the individuals I am trying to coach.

I suppose this is a teaching exercise really, without the power to direct the students as might happen at uni. Their motivation is to obey the law. It's important that the significant points and the detailed relationships.are grasped quickly. There is not mush room for debate.(except for whether the UK should be in the EU or not)

I realise that I probably need to set out what I have dubbed 'The route to compliance' so that I can see the relationships more clearly for myself.

There is little or no creative element to this, except in the sense of presenting the information in an accessible way. The core texts are in the EU legal system, with guidance prepared by the Commission, which is hard work to understand as it jumps around. It doesn't help that there are some students whose first language is not English The teaching, if that is what it is, is normally one-to-one.

The effort to devise a workable method is, to me, well worth the investment in time as well as being interesting in its own right.

Thanks again to those who have responded.

Jerry

Aha, The light has just dawned following the thoughts stimulated by the response.

I tried to formulate my needs in one sentence and came up with

Flowchart capable of linking to specific text.

Do I need a graphical version of CT?

I find that if you keep swapping from one bit of software to another both my flow and the attention of the 'students' is distracted.

I know that Visio can do this at a cost and probably a learning curve since it is some years since I last used it, but I am going to pursue Think Composer, if only I can get past the very software orientated descriptions. Why do developers seem to think that everyone shares their delight in IT Speak? (Don't answer that question unless you feel the need; I have some very definite ideas about that.)

JerryNotts wrote:

Flowchart capable of linking to specific text.

A couple of additional suggestions:

- If you are not going to print the diagrams, but only show them, including putting them on your institution's portal, then TheBrain could be just what you need.

- If printing is important, most mind mapping software will fare better. However, since your diagrams will probably be more complex, Inspiration http://www.inspiration.com/visual-learning/concept-mapping might be the better suited.