Usually when we do mind mapping (or even outlining), we start from a general topic and break it down to multiple sub-topics and sub-sub-topics etc. that are increasingly more specific. However, this process is limited because it only allows you to operate within the realm of the original general topic.

But what if you wanted to do mind mapping where you are trying to establish the intersecting areas of multiple general topics (something similar to what a Venn diagram does)? Mind mapping software don't seem to be equipped for that.

Are there any tools that can do that? One practical application for that would be the identification of an interdisciplinary research area, which would emerge at the intersection of multiple literatures and sub-domains. One could use a Venn diagram but it can get awfully messy and busy, especially if drawn by hand.

It would be nice to have a different type of visualisation. E.g. a pyramid where the lower layers are wider and more general, and the specific intersecting topic emerges at the top (with lines connecting to the underlying more general building blocks of the pyramid). Or a mind map that allows for multiple general topics and also allows for the intersecting of their more specific branches (sounds complicated).

Dr Andus:

Some ideas for representations might be found here: http://www.visual-literacy.org/periodic_table/periodic_table.html (I have always found this a great resource to come up with new ways of representing ideas).

You are really thinking a graph structure rather than the hierarchy of mind maps. One approach might be to use concept maps. I also tried to use "The Brain" for something very like this but actually found the Venn diagram to be much more expressive. If there are a fairly large number of items at the intersections the graph becomes more distracting than illuminating - even with the brain approach to zooming and moving around. I also played with some of the two and three dimensional graphing tools and didn't find them satisfactory either.

For what you are describing a tool that allowed the brain type of navigation (zooming, moving) but with a Venn diagram representation might be ideal, particularly if the same item appears in different intersections. I haven't heard of such a thing but it might be an interesting challenge to create one....

Just some thoughts.

Charles

CRC wrote:

Dr Andus:

Some ideas for representations might be found here:
http://www.visual-literacy.org/periodic_table/periodic_table.html (I have
always found this a great resource to come up with new ways of representing ideas).

Neat resource! That will keep me out of trouble for a while...

You are really thinking a graph structure rather than the hierarchy of mind maps.

Yes but I would like to retain the mind map functionality of going from the general to the increasingly more specific. As you suggest below, zooming and moving around in a complex Venn diagram could do the trick, as long as one can create and overlay smaller and more specific areas.

One
approach might be to use concept maps.

I do use a lot of concept maps (most recently in VUE) but because usually you are pursuing a single line of inquiry in a given flow chart, it doesn't prompt the issue of possible overlapping of concepts.

I also tried to use "The Brain" for something

very like this but actually found the Venn diagram to be much more expressive. If there
are a fairly large number of items at the intersections the graph becomes more
distracting than illuminating - even with the brain approach to zooming and moving
around. I also played with some of the two and three dimensional graphing tools and
didn't find them satisfactory either.

For what you are describing a tool that
allowed the brain type of navigation (zooming, moving) but with a Venn diagram
representation might be ideal, particularly if the same item appears in different
intersections. I haven't heard of such a thing but it might be an interesting
challenge to create one....

Yes, that would be interesting.

Dr Andus wrote:

But what if you wanted to do mind
mapping where you are trying to establish the intersecting areas of multiple general
topics (something similar to what a Venn diagram does)? Mind mapping software don't
seem to be equipped for that.

The only tool I can think of is Frieve Editor http://www.frieve.com/feditor/index.html (English page still pending http://www.frieve.com/english/feditor/index.html mentioned by Lucas here http://www.outlinersoftware.com/messages/viewm/10774

Another (no longer developed) is Visual Concepts http://www.visual-concept.co.uk/ which is like a hexagonal version of Microsoft's Sticky Sorter. However, as far as I understand, these tools don't allow for the same items to belong to more than one group.

Leaving the visual aspect aside, I would note that you can accomplish the same data management effect with Tags in most programs.

Keeping the visual aspect and leaving the data management aspect aside, you could use just about any object-oriented drawing program like ConceptDraw, SmartDraw etc.

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

The only tool I can think of is Frieve Editor
http://www.frieve.com/feditor/index.html (English page still pending
http://www.frieve.com/english/feditor/index.html mentioned by Lucas here
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/messages/viewm/10774

Frieve does look interesting.

Leaving
the visual aspect aside, I would note that you can accomplish the same data management
effect with Tags in most programs.

Keeping the visual aspect and leaving the data
management aspect aside, you could use just about any object-oriented drawing
program like ConceptDraw, SmartDraw etc.

The thing is I'd need this not for data management but for brainstorming. I actually tried SmartDraw for this purpose and it's too slow. It's really for presenting finished ideas, rather than brainstorming.

Anyway, so it sounds like there is a gap in the market for a brainstorming application that uses Venn diagrams? (A market of one at least...:)

Tinderbox would work for this purpose, I believe, but of course you'd need a Mac and the willingness to pony up the bucks. Still, I wanted to mention it for completeness.

Steve Z.

Slightly OT but related to Steve's post above: Tinderbox now has the facility to import directly from Scrivener (Mac version), with a lot of Scrivener's meta-data intact. Useful for analysis; it may also open up the possibility of round-tripping when Tinderbox can export more of its own meta-data to Scrivener, something which the Tinderbox team is working on.

In addition, Mark Bernstein's book, The Tinderbox Way, has just reached its second edition and has been published in ebook form; I'm finding it a helpful guide to understanding the application, alongside Steve Z.'s own extremely valuable blog posts: http://welcometosherwood.wordpress.com/tinderbox/

I'd also point out that e.g. Mindo on the iPad allows you to draw boxes round mindmapped nodes, kind of enclosing them in larger fields. It's not quite the same as Venn diagrams, but for brainstorming purposes could fulfil much the same function (especially on an iPad). The same function is almost certainly available in other mindmapping software, too.

Sorry, forgot to include a link to Mindo: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mindo/id355182443?mt=8

It's not immediately obvious how to do some stuff in it, but once you get the hang, it's remarkably powerful (and quick). I much prefer it to the other mindmappers I've experimented with on the iPad (including Mindjet's own).

MadaboutDana wrote:

I'd also point out that e.g. Mindo on the iPad allows you to draw boxes round mindmapped
nodes, kind of enclosing them in larger fields. It's not quite the same as Venn
diagrams, but for brainstorming purposes could fulfil much the same function
(especially on an iPad). The same function is almost certainly available in other
mindmapping software, too.

Thanks for the suggestion. Though for my brainstorming purposes the ability for the mind map clouds to intersect would be the killer feature (and also the ability to have more than one starting node).

My favourite mind map app on iPad is iThoughtsHD:
http://www.ithoughts.co.uk/iThoughtsHD/Welcome.html

The iPad version of Inspiration, Inspiration Maps (which I previously posted on) actually has a template with that, and if Inspiration for Windows doesn't have the template, it wouldn't be hard to replicate... for that matter with any concept map.

Basically it looks like two mindmaps joined side by side by their common nodes. Imagine two central topics, each with 3 subtopics out the left side, and 3 out the right side. Now imagine that the left map's right side subtopics, and the right map's left subtopics are the same - that is to say that both central topics point to the same 3 subtopics in between them. If you imagine them arranged as in 5 columns, they'd be:

Col1: the 3 leftside subtopics of mindmap A
Col2: the central topic of mindmap A
Col3: the 3 rightside subtopics of mindmap A..
AND the 3 leftside subtopics of mindmap B
Col4: the central topic of mindmap B
Col5: the 3 rightside subtopics of minmap B

The outside subtopics are unique to their single mindmap, whereas the inside topics are shared between both mindmaps (Intersection). There's no reason (other than space) why each of the intersection subtopics couldn't have sub-subtopics branching out from them.

Hope this helps. Let me know you'd like me to email you a 'snapshot' (unless there's a way to upload a graphic to this forum).

Cheers

Bill

OutlinerBill wrote:

The iPad version of Inspiration, Inspiration Maps (which I previously posted on)
actually has a template with that, and if Inspiration for Windows doesn't have the
template, it wouldn't be hard to replicate... for that matter with any concept
map.

Bill, thank you for the suggestion. I downloaded the light edition and played around with it a bit. Generally the app looks good for mind mapping. I tried to replicate the template and tested it but in the end I found it didn't quite do the trick for me mentally. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that I need a Venn diagram functionality here. However, most of the drawing apps in iPad that I've seen so far focus on presentation (i.e. creating something pretty, once you know what you are saying) rather than brainstorming (working rapidly to develop and discover ideas and relationships). At this point I think I will just stay with pen and paper, as that seems to be the fastest.

I agree that most tools focus on presentation. Also as I grew up in a pre-digital, analog world , I think I may be more closely wired to pen(cil) & paper than I'd like to admit for lightning brainstorming, although I prefer the brain-supercharging enabled by limitless digital multidimensionality and editability.

The closest I got to both (for me) was a Windows program called Axon Idea Processor. It's designed for speed-of-thought capture, after-the-fact rearranging, and then extending into digitally enabled frontiers like simulation and 3d reach. It's created by a developer in Singapore and you can see a gallery of possibilities at http://web.singnet.com.sg/~axon2000/showcase.htm

I haven't thought about this in quite some time as I seem to be leaving my windows laptop more and more behind as I live with my iDevices. Your initial scenario, however, reminded me of a model I'd built in Axon that was similar. If I recall, it was less a pyramid than a layered collection of primitive nodes at the bottom connecting up and aggregating to create composites in the layer above (the same primitive could be used in more than one composite), and then repeated up a couple of more layers. I believe I was architecting service layers, but can't remember exactly.

In any case, maybe that'll help (he used to have a free version with limited number of nodes so if you use Windows, you could try it out).

Good luck

Bill

OutlinerBill wrote:

The closest I got to both (for me) was a Windows program called Axon
Idea Processor. It's designed for speed-of-thought capture, after-the-fact
rearranging, and then extending into digitally enabled frontiers like simulation
and 3d reach. It's created by a developer in Singapore and you can see a gallery of
possibilities at http://web.singnet.com.sg/~axon2000/showcase.htm

Thanks Bill, this looks interesting and there is still a lite version, so I will check it out.

As often happens nowadays, there are also online tools for creating Venn diagrams, such as http://www.lucidchart.com/pages/examples/venn_diagram_maker and http://creately.com/Draw-Venn-Diagrams-Online

They both have a free option.

I understand that these also fit under the 'mostly for presentations rather than brainstorming' category, but they seem quite easy to use.

I also post, for reference, a link to a Venn template for Word http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/templates/venn-diagram-chart-TC030002098.aspx

Thanks for that Alexander, I wasn't aware of any of those.