Kinook Software has posted a roadmap for the next version of UltraRecall & future priorities. There is no date certain, nor even one suggested but it's an interesting & ambitious list IMO.

Hi Jan,

Hert and the DAM applications aren't giving you enough grief, that you still have time for a bit of CRIMP? ;) And I thought I was the only one crazy enough to tackle these two areas of software at the same time? In all seriousness, thanks for the head-up on UR. I have looked at it off and on for several months, but the learning curve seems steeper than IDImager. Perhaps I'll give it a look again. Any suggestions for how to approach UR and not ending up frustrated?

--Ken

An observation, Ken. It wasn't so long ago that Kinook could do no wrong. UR was the wonder kid on the block. More recently, we are hearing repeated complaints about error messages, and my observation is that the K team is not as quick at replying to messages as they once were.

And we still have a help file that seems more aimed at telling us what the software will do rather than how we might do it.

All of this may mean something -- or nothing.

At this point I nostalgically, yet again, open up ADM for a while, and play around with it until the common sense strikes home that it makes no sense to commit to using software when it is not clear the developer is still committed to developing it. Contrary to what some have said, I think ADM had more going for it than UR -- at least from a writer's perspective.

So I wait for the new Zoot, and the new MyInfo, and wonder how the new version of MD InfoHandler will play out.

Daly

Ken wrote:

Hi Jan,

Hert and the DAM applications aren't giving you enough grief, that you still
have time for a bit of CRIMP? ;) And I thought I was the only one crazy enough to tackle
these two areas of software at the same time? In all seriousness, thanks for the
head-up on UR. I have looked at it off and on for several months, but the learning curve
seems steeper than IDImager. Perhaps I'll give it a look again. Any suggestions for
how to approach UR and not ending up frustrated?

--Ken

Daly,

Its funny that you should say this. My two biggest frustrations in looking at programs like UR are concerns over software stability and poor documentation. One of the things that I really like about ECCO is its great help files. Most of these other programs seem to be a laundry list of commands, but not much help in helping the user learn how to use the software. Its the same problem with many of the Digital Asset Management (DAM) programs that I was teasing Jan about. There is a program called IDImager and another one called iMatch that have very responsive developers, but their GUI's and instructions are in need of an extreme makeover. I just found an old article about using Ecco that serves as a great example of how to explain a program to a new user: http://www.eccorocks.com/Tom%20Hoots/EEhtml/folders.htm . Wishful thinking, but it would be great if the author could help some of these other programmers. I realize there is always a curve when learning how to use software, but it shouldn't feel like you are always starting at square one every time you resume use of the program. Sometimes I feel like Bill Muarry in "Groundhog Day". I am sure Jan can add a comment or two about similar frustrations in the DAM world.

--Ken

Daly de Gagne wrote:

And we still have a help file that seems more aimed at
telling us what the software will do rather than how we might do it.

Ken, My personality *requires* that I find some kind of organizational product to help keep me on the straight & narrow. I have been using UR exclusive for quite a while now.

I think Daly, in his comments, has left an impression about UR that is not entirely accurate. While I don't doubt he has experienced problems w the program, I have not. It's been as solid as a rock & I use it every day, all day. Although I still have EccoPro & ADM on my machine for the infrequent reference, all my data has been transferred into UR w/o issue.

However, it is true that the Kinook folks are not overly chatty but -- in my experience -- I have found that they are responsive to direct questions about technical issues but they do *not* offer warm & fuzzy customer care which can be off-putting to some.

For example, instead of complaining about a lack of information, I asked for a development road map. Two days later, without fanfare, a road map appeared in the announcement section of the forum. That sort of response works for me.

Until I set up UR, I found it a bit daunting but after I set it up, I found it pretty intuitive & easy to use.

As for DAM... well, let's say that's another story. I was definitely in over my head with iMatch but managed to make it work even though a great deal of the program seem to rely on script writing -- not my thing. Then I heard about IDImager which interested me because of how it handles versions/stacks of the same image so I decided to license it.

SQL is a totally new world to me but I'm trying to grasp the program's use of language. As both programs are developed by Europeans, sometimes the language is a bit more formal (& accurate) but not as 'friendly' if you get my drift.

However, both developers are extremely responsive to problems. Hert (IDImager) is probably the most responsive of them all. I'm not quite how he does it & still has time for continued development but what I really like about him is that he does listen to his user base, takes a measure of their comments & makes changes when he sees a common thread. In his case -- unlike some other developers I've had experience with in the not too recent past -- there is nothing of 'it's my way or the highway'.

Working both these programs, i.e. UR & IDImager, does take a bit of time but I honestly feel I've broken thru some barriers & am actually encouraged about getting control over the various facets of my life & work.

I think both these companies are viable enterprises & aren't going away any time soon so I'm willing to spend the time on them. And both programs allow manipulating all data in standard interchange formats so I don't feel trapped. All in all, a positive experience.

Having said that I am watching MyInfo, the only other program that interests me at the moment. Zoot, IMO, will remain the same basically, albeit in a 32 bit coat. It will then take Tom Davis -- Zoot's one man band -- a while to add bells & whistles we've come to expect.

I am one of those people who likes to work with a single program so even tho Zoot might be better for one thing or another, I'm willing to give it up for my all-in-one approach. So far, IMO, UR seems to have this covered pretty well.

Unfortunately, many of these help files are written by the programmers who are not writers. A good user-to-user message board goes a long way towards filling in the gaps.

I would echo many of Jan's comments reagrding the responsiveness of the Kinook team, both within the forums and to email directed to support (although you may have to wait a day or two, which is understandable).

Regarding the error message comments that have been posted over the last several weeks, these seem to be isloated incidents many of which have been addressed. Since the rollout of v.3 and v.3.1 error message comments seemed to be a very low percentage of the user base and not unexpected with the release of a major program update and the roll-out of an operating system (Vista).

Regarding the learning curve presented by UR, I think that it depends on what you want to do with the program. UR offers so many possibilities (and it offers them all at once) - file storage/organizer companion to an email client, contact mananger, task and scheduling manager, file manager, web capture (although it seems to do best at whole-page capture), and at it's core is a Database Management System. It's understandable that this can seem overwhelming (it took me quite a while to come to grips with the program).

UR's tight integration with the MS Office Suite of programs is both a blessing and a curse. Through the use of various Office templates you can overcome many of UR's short-comings, but not everyone has access to MS Office (and a fair understanding or Word or Excel is required to exploit much of this integration). And it can

The introduction of Forms in v.3 was a big boost to the Database Management aspect of the program and provides a means to collect structured data. Additionally, the import function is very comprehensive.

Where I feel UR falls down is on the output end. It's real easy to get stuff into the program, but its Presentation Layer needs some attention. This is mentioned in the Roadmap both as enhancements to the rtf editor and as html output.

Personally, I feel there's been some very interesting work done over at www.webideatree.com, with structured pages and Cascading Style Sheets (CSS), principles that could be brought into UR, but Kinook may have other ideas on how best to provide better tools for output.

I found it interesting that both Ken and Jan mentioned iMatch (www.photools.com), as I am registered with this program - unfortunately I haven't had the time to devote to it that I would like, but I see many similarities between it and UR as a file manager. I would mention that Jan is correct in pointing out that much of iMatch's power lies in scripting, but there is a wealth of script solutions available through the Forum, and I found the script-mavens very responsive in creating new scripts to meet a user need.

Later,
KenA

Well, I decided to "test' out some programs with a GTD-inspired task management structure that I would like to create. Starting with a trusty sheet of blank white paper, I laid out much of what I wanted to manage and track, and how I wanted to do so. I must confess, it took almost no time to set up in Ecco exactly as I had envisioned it would look. Easy data entry, and very easy "views", with output exactly as I desired. I wanted to adapt this layout to EverNote, but with my limited experience, I could not find a way to "fit" my paper model to the program. I will try MyInfo later this weekend, but I spent the evening trying to get a better understanding of UR 3.1.1. I can see why Ecco users might feel a bit at home in UR. For this specific task management project I am using for a test, UR is the same as Ecco, but different! UR's search functions remind me a bit of views in Ecco's notepads. At present, its certainly easier for me to set this up in Ecco, and Ecco's calendar is, in my opinion, vastly superior to UR's. But, I can see that with a bit of training, UR could offer me a good alternative to Ecco. I think MyInfo lies somewhere in the middle. I like user defined columns, and I like having categories and/or flags because they are quick and easy to use. I might consider do-Organizer, but I still do not think that there is a more well balanced program than Ecco. If I could only take one piece of software with me in life, it would probably be Ecco. But, I am an old dog that likes to learn new tricks.

Ken Ashworth wrote:

[snip] I found it
interesting that both Ken and Jan mentioned iMatch (www.photools.com), as I am
registered with this program - unfortunately I haven't had the time to devote to it
that I would like, but I see many similarities between it and UR as a file manager. I
would mention that Jan is correct in pointing out that much of iMatch's power lies in
scripting, but there is a wealth of script solutions available through the Forum, and
I found the script-mavens very responsive in creating new scripts to meet a user
need.

KenA, You might want to compare iMatch to IDImager. http://www.idimager.com The current beta for v4 is stable & an improvement over v3. IMO, the latter program has several advantages working for it. Both developers are European (German & Dutch respectively). Both are responsive & both programs are very talented if you have to deal w image libraries. Once set up, either is a godsend. At this point I'd have to say my preference is for IDImager.

--
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA

Jan Rifkinson wrote:

Kinook Software has posted a roadmap for the next version of UltraRecall & future
priorities. There is no date certain, nor even one suggested but it's an interesting &
ambitious list IMO.

I have to coness that I was a bit disappointed that the calendar pane is so far down the list. Not that you can't keep your schedule in Outlook or something similar but its nice to have it all in one application. Most of the things on the "For the next release" list look easier to do but I wouldn't rank most of them nearly as high.

Tom S.

Ken wrote:

Well, I decided to "test' out some programs with a GTD-inspired task management
structure that I would like to create. Starting with a trusty sheet of blank white
paper, I laid out much of what I wanted to manage and track, and how I wanted to do so.

Care to share the list? I'd love to know what you think on this and I might even add to it.

I
must confess, it took almost no time to set up in Ecco exactly as I had envisioned it
would look.

I'm not surprised. Best PIM I ever used. Not optimized for the kind of large scale data storage I currently believe I need, though.

Though I'm a big fan of OneNote I've been playing a lot with Access to see what can be done in this regard. Its actually quite a lot if you are willing to do some scripting. You can actually design and cutomize a pretty decent PIM. I still haven't managed to get a tree widget to work, though, so I haven't been able to do much with "outlining" per se.

Tom S.

Interesting thread. I purchased UR from one of the give away of the days website and it's nice for collection. I'm using Do-Organizer now because of its ability to sync appointments and tasks with my 4705hx. I exist out of my PDA and only use my PC for backup. Is Ecco really that good? I went to a site and they wanted $10 to download Ecco version 4.xxx.

Hello George,

I asked a similar question in a thread on this forum some month's ago, and was provided with a URL where it could ge downloaded for free. I can't remember the link, but hopefully the original poster will repost.

Personally, Ecco does nothing for me, though obviously that's down to taste and need; but a word of warning beforehand - Ecco tends to take control of the conduits to your PDA (it did to my Palm, anyway), and loosening its hold on them can be tiresome. When I sync to my PDA now it still opens Ecco and asks for a file name, even though the conduit should ignore it. Also, I have been unable to uninstall Ecco in the normal way from my XP machine, and I'm concerned about the effects on the conduit if I just uninstall the directory.

This may, of course, not be the same for everybody, but just so that you're forewarned!

Graham

GeorgeB wrote:

Interesting thread. I purchased UR from one of the give away of the days website and
it's nice for collection. I'm using Do-Organizer now because of its ability to sync
appointments and tasks with my 4705hx. I exist out of my PDA and only use my PC for
backup. Is Ecco really that good? I went to a site and they wanted $10 to download Ecco
version 4.xxx.

Graham,
I appreciate you response. Regarding the following quote, "... I have been unable to uninstall Ecco in the normal way from my XP machine, and I'm concerned about the effects on the conduit if I just uninstall the directory", you may try looking at the following link to Cleanse Unstaller http://www.zardssoftware.com/ . I used it to uninstall a couple of programs that just wouldn't go away and they went away. I keep it around just in case. ;Cheers, GeorgeB

Ecco Pro Download:

http://supportweb.netmanage.com/ts_viewnow/downloads/patchesUnsupported/ecco.asp

Compusol Site (paid DL, seems all the DLs require a subscription):

http://www.compusol.org/ecco/

More links if you try Google.

Thanks George. Ecco did manage to crash this program, but only after it was mostly uninstalled and, best of all, I have my conduit back :-)

Graham

GeorgeB wrote:

Graham,
I appreciate you response. Regarding the following quote, "... I have been
unable to uninstall Ecco in the normal way from my XP machine, and I'm concerned about
the effects on the conduit if I just uninstall the directory", you may try looking at
the following link to Cleanse Unstaller http://www.zardssoftware.com/ . I used it
to uninstall a couple of programs that just wouldn't go away and they went away. I keep
it around just in case. ;Cheers, GeorgeB

Tom S. wrote:

Ken wrote:
>Well, I decided to "test' out some programs with a GTD-inspired task
management
>structure that I would like to create. Starting with a trusty sheet of
blank white
>paper, I laid out much of what I wanted to manage and track, and how I
wanted to do so.

Care to share the list? I'd love to know what you think on this and I
might even add to it.


Tom S.

I am happy to share, but it is quite simple, and still evolving, compared to the GTD templates that most people like ot use. I have four folders for the areas of my life: Personal; Home; Work; and, Other. These four folders are visible on one notepad. I have also created the following folders that appear as columns on this same notepad: Next Actions (check box format); Urgency (pop-up menu for determining time frame of when items needs to be handled); Priority (pop-up menu to determine the importance of the item); and, Status (pop-up menu to determine the status of action). This set-up allows me to simply enter any projects and their tasks in one window (for the time being), and use the columns to assign the attributes I described in the last sentence. I then have one other notepad that just shows me items that have a check mark in their Next Action column (from the previous notepad I just described). This way I am not overwhelmed when I want to see what items I have selected for "Next Actions" since I am choosing from this small list. Its a hybrid system that borrows the Next Action concept from GTD, and combines it with the four squares that show the intersections of items that are important/unimportant and urgent/not urgent. I do need to state that this is not my primary calender. That is also handled in Ecco, but this "Task Management" system is a test to see if I can improve my skills at using time more effectively, and reducing that feeling of being overwhelmed. If I like the basic concept and new approach, I can easily incorporate it into my primary file.

Regarding DAM programs, I would have to agree with the statements about iMatch, which I own, and IDImager, which I am beta testing fv.4 or purchase. I think Hert, IDImager's author, provides amazing customer service, but DAM programs never seem to be as robust and reliable as I wish. And, most of them have less than ideal manuals for using the program. There is one additional program that I am trying, and I have to say that while it may not be quite as powerful as these two programs, it has a must better GUI and manual. It is called FotoAlbum Pro and it is published by Fototime. I plan on using this program until IDImager stabilizes. The program is USB portable and it can create stand-alone catalogs (not slide shows) that can be sent to others for viewing without the need for any software. Now, I'd better get back to my programs if I am ever going to catch up to Jan!! ;)

Take care,

--Ken

Ken wrote:

I am happy to share, but it
is quite simple, and still evolving, compared to the GTD templates that most people
like ot use.

Yeah, Ecco is really ideal for this. Those notepads are unique and I've never run across anything exactly like them and, like most of the people here, I've been looking a long time.

I would only add a couple things to your post. I like using programs that I'm comfortable storing data in along with my projects and Next Actions and calendar. I like looking at the action or appointment and clicking an attachment and working with the data associated with it. Otherwise, particularly with intermittent projects that don't require concerted effort over as short period of time, I can't remember where the document or data file I was working with is located. It requires a parallel system to keep them on the drive. In GTD terms, I'd like to have whatever program I use for project tracking also be able to efficiently store associated project materials. The other thing that I absolutely require is a way to track emails.

Unfortunately, Ecco is particularly poor at both storing data and dealing with email. But its so ideal in other ways that I'm still prone to go back to it every once in a while. Considering how important the email integration in particular is to me, that's a real compliment to the program.

Tom S.