I know it has been said that the Bonsai screen shots don't do it justice, BUT they surely turn me off.

Cassius wrote:

I know it has been said that the Bonsai screen shots don't do it
justice, BUT they surely turn me off.

The Bonsai interface is fairly customisable. You can make it look like a basic single-pane outliner. Here is a screenshot of my setup. Please note that colouring in the font and the background is optional (i.e. those are my choices). You can have it in black and white, if you prefer.

http://drandus.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/natara_bonsai.png

@drandus - I like your screenshot!

I spent a while last night playing around with Bonsai. Looks pretty good. I found out how to add columns to the view. It doesn't seem to be possible to add user-defined fields/columns; seems you are limited to the fields that are built-in.

I liked the ability to show items to a specified level (1st level, 1&2 level, etc.)

The "outline of outlines" is a nice concept.

Too bad the mobile clients are for Palm OS and Windows Mobile, instead of Android and iOS!

jimspoon wrote:

Too bad the mobile clients are for Palm OS and Windows Mobile, instead
of Android and iOS!

I think there are a number of Android and iOS apps that can import/export either Bonsai files or OPML (you'll need to install an OPML filter for Bonsai for that). It will never be a one-step process, but then syncing with Palm wasn't either ;)

I use CarbonFin (http://carbonfin.com/faq.html on iPad/iTouch, which "syncs" via OPML with Bonsai. You can download a free OPML filter there.

jimspoon wrote:

I spent a while last night playing around with Bonsai. Looks pretty
good. I found out how to add columns to the view. It doesn't seem to
be possible to add user-defined fields/columns; seems you are limited to
the fields that are built-in.

I can highly recommend reading the Bonsai manual. It's very well written. I've read it after 5-6 yrs of using the software and then I was kicking myself for not reading it sooner, as there are all kinds of interesting features that I missed out on. They even provide some instructions for customising the code for the export filters, so e.g. you can make your very own RTF export style.

Daly de Gagne wrote:

If Sense lives up to my unrealistic expectations, together with
Noteliner, it could be possible for me to say that single pane outlining
(in each case with a navigation pane which provides for either single or
2 pane outlining) is more alive and well in the Windows world than I
had realized.

Daly, I think you'll find that Sense is quite a unique piece of software in terms of capabilities. That said, it does have a learning curve, and some things are not as intuitive as one would like. The licensing also is per machine, which is not ideal.

Dave, the developer, is open to suggestions and follows this forum from time to time. Since I first installed and registered Sense he has made many improvements. Sense's ability to work fully from one pane is quite a recent addition. I'm not sure why this software hasn't become more popular --it probably hasn't made it to the right ears yet. Maybe if James Fallows tries it and write a word or two about it...

Tried Bonsai and damn, it looks like this an opportunity the developer missed out on badly. I never really gave it a decent look because it's marketed as the desktop component for a to-do list app on PalmOS and Windows Mobile...

And yet, once I turn off all the task management functions that are enabled by default, it seems to pretty much do what I want a single-pane outliner to do.

And yet, I'm cheap and am reluctant to shell out money for what is essentially abandonware.

shatteredmindofbob wrote:

Tried Bonsai and damn, it looks like this an opportunity the developer
missed out on badly. I never really gave it a decent look because it's
marketed as the desktop component for a to-do list app on PalmOS and
Windows Mobile...

Yes, exactly!!! I've been saying this for years. It's incredible that they haven't even bothered to update the website to reposition the software after Palm etc. had died. It's like they don't realise that there is a market for it, if they had just repackaged the product (like SplashNotes or StoryView did).

And yet, once I turn off all the task management functions that are
enabled by default, it seems to pretty much do what I want a single-pane
outliner to do.

As I've been arguing, it has a lot of outliner-oriented features that many other contemporary outliners are still lacking:
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4193

And yet, I'm cheap and am reluctant to shell out money for what is
essentially abandonware.

I can understand that, considering that Noteliner, UV Outliner and TKOutline are free. But it all depends on your needs. I use Bonsai every day, as I find it the fastest outliner and list sorter, so for me it's an essential tool and IMHO it's a better value than Inspiration even at 50% off.

Unfortunately I don't get a cut for plugging it. I love this product so much, if I had the money, I'd buy the company :) But seriously, someone could make some money by just simply repositioning this product as an outliner and making a few Youtube videos on how to use it for outlining (or even as a to-do manager).

Dr. Andus,

Thanks for the screenshot! One question: How much text can one put in a single outline item and can one include graphics?

Thanks!
------------------------------------

Dr Andus wrote:

The Bonsai interface is fairly customisable. You can make it look like a
basic single-pane outliner. Here is a screenshot of my setup. Please
note that colouring in the font and the background is optional (i.e.
those are my choices). You can have it in black and white, if you
prefer.

http://drandus.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/natara_bonsai.png

Cassius wrote:

How much text can one put in
a single outline item and can one include graphics?

You put your finger on Bonsai's main limitations:

- Each item in the outline is limited to 1000 characters.
- The outline depth is limited to 30 levels.
- Notes attached to items are limited to 32 KB.
- Limit of 15 user defined category names for each outline.

You can't insert images - although you can link to them. The links can appear in both the outline item's title and notes. Bonsai recognizes the following types of external resources:
http://
https://
ftp://
mailto:
file:/// - Drive letter based file path. "file:///C:\temp.txt".
file:\\ - UNC based file path. For example "file:\\ComputerName\ShareName\temp.txt".
outlook:
evernote:// - Evernote entries: evernote://C:\DBs\EverNote.enb?guid=[11CAB2D8-744A-E8BA-0C144682872A7557]

Dr Andus wrote:

Cassius wrote:
I know it has been said that the Bonsai screen shots don't do it
>justice, BUT they surely turn me off.

The Bonsai interface is fairly customisable. You can make it look like a
basic single-pane outliner. Here is a screenshot of my setup. Please
note that colouring in the font and the background is optional (i.e.
those are my choices). You can have it in black and white, if you
prefer.

http://drandus.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/natara_bonsai.png

BTW, you can save your preferred background colour scheme under View > Global Settings > Fonts (setting slightly different colours for "Bkg Color 1" and "Bkg Color 2" will produce the striped effect), and you can save the the preferred outline level text colour under View > New Outline Defaults > Colors.

Having the outline level colours saved as default is particularly helpful when you need to dump a flat list into Bonsai and make sense of it quickly by organising it into groups and hierarchies (like you would with BrainStorm or Maxthink). As soon as you start indenting items (hit Tab), they change colour according to the presets.

I use this process as part of my analytical workflow. E.g. after ending up with a long flat list of observations and conclusions (having annotated a reading in ConnectedText), I just copy and paste the resulting list into Bonsai and organise the disparate observations into a meaningful outline. This way I can start seeing patterns and groups of observations and draw some final conclusions more easily. Then I link to this Bonsai file from the given CT topic.

Interesting - I didn't realise Sense supported OPML (through a plugin). Closer look required... no! no!...

C-C-C-RRRRRRIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMPPPPing!

It would be good to have an idea of your "unrealist expectations"!

Daly de Gagne wrote:

Thanks to Alexander for mentioning Sense, and to Franz for providing the
url.

I have downloaded Sense, and in a few minutes only (rush to judgment
coming!) I re-experienced what it was like to work with MORE. My hope is
that this early exuberance won't be betrayed.

If Sense lives up to my unrealistic expectations, together with
Noteliner, it could be possible for me to say that single pane outlining
(in each case with a navigation pane which provides for either single or
2 pane outlining) is more alive and well in the Windows world than I
had realized.

Daly

Franz Grieser wrote:
Daly.
>
>You find Sense (no pun intended) here: http://www.silvaelm.co.uk/
>
>Franz