Surfulater (cont'd fr Evernote 4)

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Posted by Daly de Gagne
Nov 16, 2010 at 04:09 PM

Cady, I’m replying to your post in the Evernote 4 thread I began yesterday, because as you note in your post, it is more about Surfulater than Evernote.

I appreciated your input on Surfulater.

Back in the summer I went to Mac for a two week period - the time I had in which to return it to Staples if I was not completely satisfied. I did return it, in fact.

One of the reasons was that the information programs available, although appreciated by many other people whom I respect, were to my mind lacking.

One of the standards by which I found the Mac lacking was Surfulater http://www.surfulater.com/ . I have watched Neville, the developer, fine tune this program over the years. He has a keen sense of how to massage information, and the software programming skills to make it work well.

When it comes to massaging information - to respecting information - Neville is miles ahead of Evernote. Evernote’s developers have their respect focused on multi-platform functionality, and there is something to be said for that, but not quite as much, in my opinion, as EN’s developers seem to be saying. My fear, confirmed since the introduction of version 3, is that the ability to massage information takes a second row seat in the process. EN does not have even such a basic feature as a highlighter - imperative when working with information, IMHO.

Strategically, I think it would be difficult for Neville to compete with EN in terms of multi-platform functionality - but space in the cloud is infinite. My bet is that if Surfulater could clip from any Windows computer to the cloud, or to the desktop, and to sync between the two as Evernote does, that it would greatly expand the Surfulater market.

Incidentally, yesterday, I downloaded the latest version of Surfulater - 3.40 - and was delighted by a new feature, “Remove HTML,” which enables remove of some or all of the HTML markup - handy because sometimes it gets in the way of making a clipping. It already solved one problem I was having with downloading from a major information site.

Just my thoughts.

Daly

Cady wrote:
>Daly de Gagne wrote:
>>Is anyone using EN 4?
>>
>>I think it is faster in its Windows
>version.
>>
>>However, given
>>that it is an information program, and therefore more
>than a clipper of steroids which
>>can be used on just about any known platform (a good
>thing for those who need it), I hope
>>the developers begin to focus on info management
>more than they have.
>>
>>For example,
>>tags and highlighting.
>>
>>The tagging
>capability is less than it was with version 2.
>>
>>
>>And highlighting of text seems to
>have been yet again bypassed.
>>
>>My hope is that at
>>some future point - sooner
>rather than later - that Neville, developer of Surfulater,
>>can give Surfulater a
>cloud capability.
>>
>>Even if Surfulater does not work on other
>>platforms, I
>suspect there is a significant number of Windows users who would support
>>a cloud
>version - enough to make it worthwhile.
>>
>>Neville has shown more sensitivity
> >>than EN’s developers to the need for post-clip information management tools, and
> >>though there is not a column option ( a favorite feature of mine), he has provided a
>way
>>to deal with metadata which is effective. As well, Surfulater has a tagging
>process
>>which allows for searches for items with both tag A and tag B. It is done very
> >>smartly.
>>
>>Daly
> >Hi. I apologize for deviating from the main topic (EN
>4).
>Since Daly mentioned Surfulater, I just wanted to point out that I sorely miss
>Surfulater on my Mac. I miss the tags. I miss the cross-references… A while ago I even
>emailed Neville and shamelessly begged him to make a Mac version.
>Currently I use
>Surfulater with Parallels (still on v. 5; I haven’t yet upgraded Parallels 6), but the
>lack of integration with other Mac apps makes the process cumbersome.
>To this day, I
>haven’t found a proper Mac-equivalent to Surfulater. I clip web pages to DEVONthink
>Pro Office, but DTP, while an excellent solution to handling large amounts of data,
>just doesn’t “feel” like a Surfulater replacement…

Posted by Cady
Nov 16, 2010 at 10:44 PM

Daly de Gagne wrote:
>Cady, I’m replying to your post in the Evernote 4 thread I began yesterday, because as
>you note in your post, it is more about Surfulater than Evernote.
> >I appreciated your
>input on Surfulater.
> >Back in the summer I went to Mac for a two week period - the time I
>had in which to return it to Staples if I was not completely satisfied. I did return it,
>in fact.
> >One of the reasons was that the information programs available, although
>appreciated by many other people whom I respect, were to my mind lacking.
> >One of the
>standards by which I found the Mac lacking was Surfulater
>http://www.surfulater.com/ . I have watched Neville, the developer, fine tune this
>program over the years. He has a keen sense of how to massage information, and the
>software programming skills to make it work well.
> >When it comes to massaging
>information - to respecting information - Neville is miles ahead of Evernote.
>Evernote’s developers have their respect focused on multi-platform
>functionality, and there is something to be said for that, but not quite as much, in my
>opinion, as EN’s developers seem to be saying. My fear, confirmed since the
>introduction of version 3, is that the ability to massage information takes a second
>row seat in the process. EN does not have even such a basic feature as a highlighter -
>imperative when working with information, IMHO.
> >Strategically, I think it would
>be difficult for Neville to compete with EN in terms of multi-platform functionality
>- but space in the cloud is infinite. My bet is that if Surfulater could clip from any
>Windows computer to the cloud, or to the desktop, and to sync between the two as
>Evernote does, that it would greatly expand the Surfulater market.
> >Incidentally,
>yesterday, I downloaded the latest version of Surfulater - 3.40 - and was delighted by
>a new feature, “Remove HTML,” which enables remove of some or all of the HTML markup -
>handy because sometimes it gets in the way of making a clipping. It already solved one
>problem I was having with downloading from a major information site.
> >Just my
>thoughts.
> >Daly
Hi, Daly.
Thank you for the added info.
I just installed Surfulater 3.40 on my virtual machine (and have yet to install it on my HP Mini 2140). “Remove HTML” does come in handy.
Clipping from Surfulater to the cloud is a great idea, and might help create a better workflow on the Mac. Working on 2 platforms, Windows and Mac, I need both Surfulater and DTP (=DEVONthink Pro).
Maybe:
Surfulater (virtual machine on Mac, or an actual Windows machine)—> Cloud—> DTP (Mac) ???
Currently, I export from Surfulater to html and then import to DTP.

Cady

Posted by Neville Franks
Nov 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM

Daly/all,
At present there are three+ big areas which need to be worked on in Surfulater:
1) Complete the migration of all data to a single unified database system.
2) Resolve Unicode issues.
3) Sync / cloud use.
4) Cross platform.

There is some degree of overlap here in that the new database system and its supporting software stack may resolve item 2 and make possible item 3. Further it may lend itself to item 4.

We software developers have always “lived in interesting times” and it seems to me that the technology and software we have available today empowers us to produce and deliver applications which just a few years back were very, very difficult to achieve. In fact if I were to start developing Surfulater today the underlying software and its implementation would be nothing like we have in Surfulater now.

I am currently spending time evaluating some new database systems and new ways to develop applications like Surfulater and am excited by the prospects. The learning curve is steep and I don’t as yet know where these new ways are up to the task or not. That said I am very much hoping they are.

In my personal use of Surfulater, automated (cloud) synchronization would be of great benefit and something I am very keen and highly motivated to deliver. Cloud use ties in with the research I am currently doing.

I also agree with dan7000’s comments about the need for quicker and simpler ways of adding information and intend working on this. Applications should be as invisible as possible and not interrupt your work flow. The user should be able to enter as much or as little additional information as they want. For Surfulater’s Web Browser content capture we’ll see a new simple UI in the Browser, with no need to access Surfulater itself.

-Neville

(Chris can this textarea be made higher please.)

Posted by Daly de Gagne
Nov 18, 2010 at 03:46 AM

Neville,

Wow! In terms of future development that will enhance Surfulater, and keep it competitive in a good way it looks like you’ve got the bases covered. I’m impressed!

Thanks for laying out your priority areas and how they relate.

Daly

Neville Franks wrote:
>Daly/all,
>At present there are three+ big areas which need to be worked on in
>Surfulater:
>1) Complete the migration of all data to a single unified database
>system.
>2) Resolve Unicode issues.
>3) Sync / cloud use.
>4) Cross platform.
> >There
>is some degree of overlap here in that the new database system and its supporting
>software stack may resolve item 2 and make possible item 3. Further it may lend itself
>to item 4.
> >We software developers have always “lived in interesting times” and it
>seems to me that the technology and software we have available today empowers us to
>produce and deliver applications which just a few years back were very, very
>difficult to achieve. In fact if I were to start developing Surfulater today the
>underlying software and its implementation would be nothing like we have in
>Surfulater now.
> >I am currently spending time evaluating some new database systems
>and new ways to develop applications like Surfulater and am excited by the prospects.
>The learning curve is steep and I don’t as yet know where these new ways are up to the task
>or not. That said I am very much hoping they are.
> >In my personal use of Surfulater,
>automated (cloud) synchronization would be of great benefit and something I am very
>keen and highly motivated to deliver. Cloud use ties in with the research I am
>currently doing.
> >I also agree with dan7000’s comments about the need for quicker
>and simpler ways of adding information and intend working on this. Applications
>should be as invisible as possible and not interrupt your work flow. The user should be
>able to enter as much or as little additional information as they want. For
>Surfulater’s Web Browser content capture we’ll see a new simple UI in the Browser,
>with no need to access Surfulater itself.
> >-Neville
> >(Chris can this textarea be
>made higher please.)

Posted by JasonE
Nov 21, 2010 at 05:54 AM

>I also agree .. about the need for quicker and simpler ways of adding information and intend working on this. Applications should be >as invisible as possible and not interrupt your work flow.

This may not add much to the discussion, but I have to say, that would be a wonderful development.

It is disruptive to have to enter the Surulater application to bookmark a web page.

I also find the big BEEP it makes aversive. Every time, I first swear at it for beeping at me, then think, “I am going to have to see if there is a way to make it not do that.”

But it only happens, of course, when I am busy working. Otherwise I wouldn’t be bookmarking pages. So I never bother to stop what I am up to in order to figure it out.

Anyway, much love to Surfulater. It has a valued place in my workflow.

Jason

Jason Ebaugh

Personal communications:
ebaughjason@gmail.com

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