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Profound Disappointment
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Posted by Harlander
Aug 9, 2010 at 10:49 PM
You are absolutely right, Manfred, and I really didn’t want to sound as if I was religiously defending the Mac. I am no fanboy… I think it’s overpriced, but in the end, it just fits. I had a hard time with Tinderbox, but once in my workflow, it was fine. What I like about DevonThink is it’s stability. I have a database that contains about 400.000 documents (no kidding, it was a library of electronic texts that I have imported) and though it’s not as snappy as it used to be, it runs just fine. It sort of reminds me of InfoSelect, back in the old days… But I wouldn’t compare it to ConnectedText as importing various document types (word, excel, pdf etc.) does not belong to CT’s strengths. VoodooPad was a major disappointment and you are right, reading other peoples praises about certain programs just isn’t a substitute for actually using them. Never believe the hype ;-) ( nor the slander…)
Andreas
Posted by Daly de Gagne
Aug 9, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Wes, thanks to you and the others for giving me some push-back on this. I do appreciate it - if anything, having cut my computer teeth on the Mac in the 90s until 2002, I may have set my expectations too high, or in the wrong places.
I agree with you about the kitchen sink approach, the feature bloat. Yet, I cannot understand the distinct lack of some features on some of the outliner programs. And, in fact, I do not find a sense of Mac programs working any more perfectly than PC. Yes, I would rather use NoteBook on the Mac than OneNote. But why am I looking at NoteBook? because of lack of features in OmniOutliner, and an apparent ability to get Mori or Neo to work according to the claims they make. Perhaps the problem is not with the software, but with the way manuals are written. But…it is frustrating.
All of a sudden, programs such as MyInfo start to look better.
I’ve realized that on the Mac the easiest, fastest way for me to gather information and have it automatically backed up is EverNote. For that, I do not need a Mac.
Mac has a good reputation for outliners, but my recent experience suggests it is largely due to MORE and InControl. Opal is a good program, as was ACTA, but my need is for organzing information, as well as brief points, in an outline.
Wes, apart from the programs, what is it that makes the Mac better in your view to the PC? I love the way it feels, but I also like the way my partner’s daughter’s new Windows laptop feels, and I am told W7 is very stable.
What I remember from the Mac is a true elegance in software - and I have not found much of it so far, with the possible exception of DevonThink.
Daly
Wes Perdue wrote:
>Daly,
>
>I think a false expectation may be leading to your disappointment. There are
>different philosophies on the two platforms, and you seem to not be allowing yourself
>enough time to adapt to the Mac app design philosophy.
>
>PC apps seem to have a a
>kitchen-sink approach; that is, they just keep adding features until the apps are
>unwieldy. Mac apps tend to be more like a well-designed Unix utility: they do one thing
>well, are well-defined, and work perfectly.
>
>I started my Mac adventure about two
>and a half years ago. It took six months before I started feeling comfortable with my
>Mac, and it took me a year to let go of my PC. I am now so in love with my Mac that you’d have to
>pry it from my cold, dead hands.
>
>I’m a sys admin, with many years experience in
>Windows, Solaris, and Linux. I’ve been using DOS/Windows professionally since
>MS-DOS 3.3. I’ve used Windows more than any other platform. It took me a very long time
>to unlearn it and adapt to my Mac. I assure you that the journey for me was worth it; I
>expect it’ll be the same for you.
>
>Please give it more time. If you are too
>uncomfortable, go back to Windows 7. It’s not that bad an OS. However, the Mac is a much
>more elegant tool, as are its best apps.
>
>Regards,
>Wes
Posted by Daly de Gagne
Aug 9, 2010 at 10:56 PM
Andreas, please do not apologize for raising your voice. I was hoping for that, because for me this is a critical situation.
I appreciate what you say about DevonThink, and it is the one program I can see myself using. But when push comes to shove, it is not all that different from EverNote. And it is easier to use EverNote with every program on the PC than it is on the Mac - though there may be something I am not doing right. EverNote is an automatic backup as well, because it syncs with the cloud.
I have not checked Curio, and I will do that.
Thanks.
Daly
Harlander wrote:
>Daly,
>
>sorry for raising my voice, as I am just a lurker, but I think it also has to do
>whether the programs available for the Mac simply fit your needs… For myself I
>haven’t found anything in the windows world that would even come close to DevonThink,
>as I have to handle lots of documents and the inherent AI is worth every penny of my Mac.
>All my outlining, linking, analyzing etc. is done in Tinderbox, another program I
>cannot live without. Then there is the excellent Curio, again without counterpart in
>the windows world. I left Windows behind three years ago and I have never looked back
>since. But as Wes pointed out, I think it is better to have different programs that each
>do one thing very good and thus complement one another than to have only one, that does
>all of it just a little bit and lacks in every other area. Let your expectations rise too
>high and you will be disappointed. It took time to get to know the OS, but after all the
>frustration with Windows I thought I might as well give it a chance. And step by step it
>all made sence - even services… And then, there is still VMWare Fusion and
>Parallels, so I can still use connectedtext and citavi whenever I need it. So,
>nothing’s lost with a Mac…
>
>Regards,
>
>Andreas
Posted by Daly de Gagne
Aug 9, 2010 at 11:02 PM
Quant, I agree with you.
On the one hand I have spent too much time trying to find one program to do it all in terms of information. ADM perhaps could have been such a program, but it is gone.
So I realized where a split was falling, and that perhaps two programs - one for heavy duty capture of information from the web, journals, etc. And another for processing of ideas, and what I am uploading from brain - such as it is.
The Mac has made me think EverNote and MyInfo, and possibly Surfulater.
In the Mac, it would have been Omni Outliner and NoteBook to do essentially what I can do with MyInfo. MyInfo starts to look pretty good as soon as you forget using its web features, which are perhaps its weakest and quirkiest part.
Daly
quant wrote:
>“But as Wes pointed out, I think it is better to have different programs that each do one
>thing very good and thus complement one another than to have only one, that does all of
>it just a little bit and lacks in every other area.”
>
>I think otherwise, as far as PIM
>software is concerned. I think is far better to live with small deficiencies in some of
>the arreas, but have ALL the info under one hood. At the same time, this allows one to
>understand the chosen soft and become master of it.
Posted by Wes Perdue
Aug 10, 2010 at 12:34 AM
quant wrote:
>I think otherwise, as far as PIM
>software is concerned. I think is far better to live with small deficiencies in some of
>the arreas, but have ALL the info under one hood. At the same time, this allows one to
>understand the chosen soft and become master of it.
I can see that approach would work for some, but it doesn’t for me. I get overwhelmed when I’m looking at too much information at one time; I also get frustrated when tools make compromises to add features. Using different tools for different datasets helps me stay focused, e.g. Evernote for work and certain personal data sets, DevonThink for academic research, etc. I use other tools to bring things together at higher levels, e.g. Tinderbox or NovaMind for brainstorming, OmniFocus for task management, iCal for scheduling, etc.
Everyone has their own way; I’ve found mine on my Mac.
Regards,
Wes