It has taken eight years, but I am back with a Mac - and it seems better than ever. But now for the hard work of moving stuff, setting up some new software, and getting some work done!

I said here I had looked at OmniOutline, downloading and printing out its manual. Now I have it running, and I am not sure I like it. Most noticeably I see it appears to lack tag capability, for line items in the outline. Am I missing something?

Also, have downloaded Mori - it seems to have an interesting system of tag and smart folders, as well as providing for columns.

Am not clear on relative pros and cons of Mori and OmniOutline - I realize I need to do some searches here for older posts. In the meantime if any one is able to say something about these programs, I sure would appreciate it.

Also have downloaded DevonThink, but haven't really got into it as yet.

And I've downloaded a few word processing and writing related programs - eg. Open Office, Mellel, Scrivener, and IWork. Anyone have any thoughts - other than perhaps how I will get any work done at all as I try to figure out which of these programs are keeper.

I also downloaded an academic reference program - Sente 6 - which makes itself sound like the absolute cutting edge for managing references, and keeping abreast of the literature.

Honestly, I think I am in CRIMP overdose mode - I have had the MacBook for less than 24 hours! But it feels great!

Thanks for any input y'all may have.

Daly

Hi, Daly,

You're where I was two years ago when I switched back to a Mac for my personal use (still on a PC at the office). Luckily from a CRIMP overload standpoint there are fewer choices on the Mac than for Windows. Anyway, for what it is worth, here is my two cents:

The can't miss application for any CRIMPer with intentions of writing is, of course, Scrivener. It's a dream application, with one of the most active user groups I've ever seen.

I wouldn't bother with Mori, as the developer -- not the original developer, but someone who took over development a couple of years ago -- seems not to have any interest in further improvement, and I found it a little buggy when I tried it.

OmniOutliner is probably the second most powerful outliner for Mac, after TAO (and now NEO, if that has been officially released, by the same developer as for TAO). OmniOutliner is a little more user friendly, but in truth I haven't warmed up to either one. Since I purchased Tinderbox, I use that for my outlining, but I wouldn't recommend spending all that money just to use the outliner mode.

The other unusual choice as an outliner, one worth checking out, is Taskpaper. It is developed by the original developer of Mori (which used to be called Hog Bay Notebook or something like that). Taskpaper doesn't provide columns, but it does allow you to tag any item. It's quite ingenious and very elegant in its simplicity.

http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/taskpaper

The problem with Mac software, as I see it, is so many of these developers have turned their attention to creating iPad apps. I'm not sure how much further development their Mac apps will get, at least in the short term. That's another reason to choose Scrivener as Keith has stated in no uncertain terms that he's not interested in developing for the iPad.

Steve

Sounds like you may be after a complex application, but if all you want is outlining, check out Opal. (And any member of this forum can contact me for a discount.)

David, thanks for the note. In fact, I did download Opal this afternoon, and will look at it carefully.

I used to use ACTA and quite liked it.

While I don't want an overly complex application, I do want an outliner which will allow me to handle columns, which is why Opal is probably not sufficient for my needs.

I'm surprised that OmniOutline while allowing for columns seems to have no tagging or cloning capability. In fact, I see on the forums that in 2008 the developer asked people to explain how they would use cloning. I would have thought that by that late date cloning was no-brainer.

Mori has some interesting capability, but its ability to add custom columns is convoluted, and requires setting up a new file for each new column added. I set some date columns, but to my chagrin they did not function as date columns according to any kind of a format.

I like DevonThink as a database program, and think I will stick with it. It has a better understanding of information processing needs than does EverNote.

Incidentally, running EverNote in Mac, I see even more clearly how the Windows users of EN have been given short shrift.

In terms of Outline programs, why is it so hard for anyone - in either the Mac or the Windows world - to create an outliner with the understanding that metadata columns (easily defined by user), cloning, tagging, etc are all essential elements for handling information and/or ideas?

Daly

David Dunham wrote:

Sounds like you may be after a complex application, but if all you want is outlining,
check out Opal. (And any member of this forum can contact me for a discount.)

As far as I am aware, the only single-pane outliners featuring both custom columns and cloning are TAO and Tinderbox. Tinderbox is a bit pricey to be purchasing just as an outliner. But you might look at Tinderbox's little brother, Twig. I think Twig's outliner has all the power of Tinderbox, but at about a third of the price. If you do try Twig, be sure you are able to export your outlines satisfactorily. It seems Twig's export capabilities are one of the areas in which its functions are reduced from the big application, and the big application doesn't have the most intuitive export capabilities to begin with.

http://www.eastgate.com/Twig/

Steve

Addendum to the Twig post: Tinderbox/Twig do not have tagging in the usual sense, but you can create custom fields (known as attributes) and I have no doubt you can replicate tagging.

Steve

Thanks Stephen to you, and to others who are responding to my hypomanic flurry of posts as I try - stupidly, perhaps - to explore the whole landscape at once

I like the Neo features - possibly. But just as Tao substituted dates for me in a date column, so did Neo, albeit a more recent date. Maybe there are solutions. I don't know.

But am realizing I need to be a little bit strategic and slow down a little, or with my ADHD and crimp tendencies nothing will get done.

I have identified a couple of things I can do with OO - track my reading, and use the budget template to track my spending and income.

I'd like to use it as a place to write short blog posts, keep a journal, and track articles, books, etc I read. The in-line text sections allow all of that.

Perhaps I was expecting too much - still looking for that program where info can be kept, writing done, outlines maintained, etc. Ironically, Evernote seems to come close to that.

For maintaining a database of information and documents, I am warming up to DevonThink. It seems very cool.

Though I downloaded Tinderbox last night, though I know Stephen you like it, I may lay off it for a while until I am more settled on the Mac.

Part of my problem, as you and Hugh have said, is I am coming back to Mac at a bad time because of emphasis on other platforms. But the other part of my problem is remembering, and perhaps through memory, inflating the merits of InControl.

I remember MORE - my PR boss, Jim Lewis, back in the mid-80s was a MORE aficionado, and considered a Mac portable because it had a carrying case, only weighed about 15 pounds, and could be slung over his shoulder.

Before I traded in a PC system for my first Mac in 1989, I had started to use Grandview but never got into it big time.

As always, I maintain ADM and Eric Somer had the best chance of making something very different, and to some extent succeeded. If I win the $11 million lotto in Manitoba tonight, I'll look for Eric, and offer to invest (seriously).

I also find myself seriously wishing that Neville at Surfulater would do two things - develop a Mac version for his program, and give it inter-platform capability through the cloud.

Lastly, again I say, Evernote feels so much better on the Mac.

Thanks, guys, for putting up with my rambling rants.

Oh...one last thought - I have about a dozen programs open, am flipping back and forth, etc., the Mac has hardly slowed down. The hardware and Snow Leopard feel soliday, and the screen is the brightest and clearest I have ever seen.

And that's on the entry level MacBook.

My guy at Staples (the friendliest big box store in the world is the Staples on Pembina in Winnipeg!) is a member of the Mac cult, as he says. He told me not to feel bad I couldn't buy a MacBook Pro - "you won't need it," he said. "Unless you are a gamer."

Daly







Stephen Zeoli wrote:

As far as I am aware, the only single-pane outliners featuring both custom columns and
cloning are TAO and Tinderbox. Tinderbox is a bit pricey to be purchasing just as an
outliner. But you might look at Tinderbox's little brother, Twig. I think Twig's
outliner has all the power of Tinderbox, but at about a third of the price. If you do try
Twig, be sure you are able to export your outlines satisfactorily. It seems Twig's
export capabilities are one of the areas in which its functions are reduced from the
big application, and the big application doesn't have the most intuitive export
capabilities to begin with.

http://www.eastgate.com/Twig/

Steve

Daly,

You might find you can do with a journaling application like MacJournal. It is great for creating dated journal entries, of course, but you can also use it for all kinds of unrelated writing (for related writing -- i.e. writing bits of pieces of a larger work -- you can't beat Scrivener). It doesn't have custom columns, but it does allow you to display a number of built-in meta-data, including rating (one to five stars), priority, status, tags, and annotation (i.e. small notes). You may be able to replicate all that functionality in DevonThink, however. But it may be worth a look:

http://www.marinersoftware.com/products/macjournal/

Steve

Steve, thanks. I have just downloaded MacJournal. Will let you know how it works out.

Daly

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Daly,

You might find you can do with a journaling application like MacJournal. It is
great for creating dated journal entries, of course, but you can also use it for all
kinds of unrelated writing (for related writing -- i.e. writing bits of pieces of a
larger work -- you can't beat Scrivener). It doesn't have custom columns, but it does
allow you to display a number of built-in meta-data, including rating (one to five
stars), priority, status, tags, and annotation (i.e. small notes). You may be able to
replicate all that functionality in DevonThink, however. But it may be worth a
look:

http://www.marinersoftware.com/products/macjournal/

Steve