I notice GOTD is running another special for Tabbles in its various incarnations.

What do people here think of the philosophy of creating virtual folders and/or tagging files? I've always stuck with physical file locations although I do use some virtual tools like Outlook categories. Is the investment in set-up and maintenance worth the long-term benefits?

Is Tabbles a good implementation or are there better options in the market?

TIA

Jack

I bought a license to Tabbles sometime ago, I think in Bits du Jour. It is stable, does what it says and looks nice, but I can't say I use it much. I guess the reason is that I am quite happy with the other ways I have organised my material over the years, both within the file system and through links from information management software.

If you want to try tagging I suggest you also give the following a go, both mentioned here in the past I think:
- TaggedFrog http://lunarfrog.com/taggedfrog/ This is freeware and has the advantage of working in portable mode, as long as .NET framework 2 and above is available
- Detalizer http://www.detalizer.com/en-us/ IMHO, this is rather expensive for what it does, but it integrates well with Windows Explorer

is anyone aware of tagging program that stores the tags/keywords also directly in file's properties section (those that allow it, talking windows here)?

You can use Total Commander. There are two ways to tag files:
- using Comment command (Ctrl-Z) - saves tags in separate files
- using NTFS Descriptions plugin - saves tags on the NTFS file system

Check these threads for more info:
http://www.ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?p=164123
http://www.ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?p=155170
http://en.totalcmd.pl/download/wdx/fls/NTFS_Descriptions


Tomek

quant wrote:

is anyone aware of tagging program that stores the tags/keywords also
directly in file's properties section (those that allow it, talking
windows here)?

Quant, I would love to find such a program. There are some types of files that support metadata (including tags) - jpg and mp3 come to mind. In these cases the metadata is stored in the jpg or mp3 file itself - the metadata travels with the file. If you are displaying the details pane in Windows Explorer, you can directly edit these data fields in the details pane. Just tried the same with MS Word .docx file - same thing. PDF files, some fields are displayed, but can't be edited from Explorer. Pure TXT files, no editable fields or tags.

Another possibility is the use of alternate data streams. These are like invisible sidecar files that ride along side the "main" file, without being a part of them. Here is an interesting explanation -
http://www.irongeek.com/i.php?page=security/altds

It is extremely easy to create and view an alternate data stream - tried these three command lines:

C:\>echo this is a regular file>adstest.txt
C:\>echo this is the alternate data stream>adstest.txt:ads.txt
C:\>notepad adstest.txt:ads.txt

Such an ADS file could include tags, or attribute:value pairs. A program could be designed to put tags in an ADS file, to index ADS files along with the base files, and to search on tags contained in an ADS.

NTFS also supports extended file attributes.

I'd have to do some research to see if any tagging programs make use of the ADS or the extended file attributes.

Tabbles 3 is at Bits du Jour today http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/tabbles/in=todays-deals-home

I post it here for reference. I will write a bit more at http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/5375/

File Meta is one to look at. What interests me about it - file tags are stored in the alternate data streams of the tagged files, so they travel with the files (so long as they stay on an NTFS filesystem). Also the tags are editable in Windows Explorer.

http://betanews.com/2013/06/06/file-metadata-lets-you-view-and-edit-metadata-for-all-file-types/

http://filemeta.codeplex.com/

version 1.2 of the program was released today - May 5 2014.

http://filemeta.codeplex.com/releases/view/121762

I use a Mac, for which there is a very deft, rule-based file manipulation application called Hazel, created by the developer Noodlesoft. (There may be an equivalent for Windows, but I'm not aware of it.) I use tags with Hazel to trigger filing actions in 'traditional' hierarchical folders in my filing system. My tags exist on the screen in a tag cloud, and I use them as a kind of stamp or signal to indicate to Hazel where I want my files filed, and how I want them renamed and labelled. I could use a file's contents to trigger Hazel directly, but that seems to me to be slightly too risky. OS 10.9, Mavericks, is also an assistance with all this, because it has introduced tags.

There may be a better way; if so I'll be very pleased to hear it.

Please tell more about what you using for a "tag cloud" "on the screen" -- I know of a few Mac apps that will do something like this, but none that do it well

Hugh wrote:

My tags exist on the screen in
a tag cloud,

I use Yep, from Ironic Software; I believe that Leap from the same stable has similar functionality. I use Yep mainly because when I started to look at the tagging route, I discovered that I had a long-held licence. I also index my folders using DevonThink Pro Office - possibly overkill, but another overhang from previous use. (Yep and Leap have both appeared 'abandoned' by their developer; however within the last 12 months they have been updated to handle Mavericks tags, having previously used Open Meta. Yep does seem both adequate and stable.)

Yes, tags saved inside file properties would be great. But not all files support this.

I have created RecentX that allows tagging of files, folders, programs & bookmarks - http://www.conceptworld.com/RecentX

Though, the tags are not integral part of files etc. But you can group files & locate them back very fast using RecentX.

You guys may be interested.

Thanks for allowing me to participate in this forum.

Regards,
Gautam Jain
(Author of Notezilla, RecentX & Copywhiz)

I just saw this on Hacker News: TagSpaces (http://www.tagspaces.org/

"TagSpaces is an open source personal data manager. It helps you organize files with tags on every platform."

The Hacker News discussion is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7726359

Disillusioned (is it information management that you are disillusioned with, I wonder?) thanks for the heads up!

Tagspaces looks indeed very good.

The first thing I wondered was whether syncing between devices is possible (I expected some dedicated pay-as-you-go web service through which one would do it, as usual).

And yes it can be done, all one needs is Dropbox http://www.tagspaces.org/filesync-tagspaces-and-dropbox/

You're welcome! (No, one of my intentions for life is to become dis-illusioned).

i was looking at the discussion about tagspaces - it seems that the tags are added as part of the filename of the tagged files, and this was a deal breaker for some.

Paul Korm wrote:

Please tell more about what you using for a "tag cloud" "on the screen"
-- I know of a few Mac apps that will do something like this, but none
that do it well

Hugh wrote:
>My tags exist on the screen in
>a tag cloud,

Just as an addendum to my previous reply: I sense an unsatisfied need in the Mac ecosphere for a document-management application that on the one hand leaves files available to external access (including access from iOS and Android, and access in the Cloud) and manipulation (including filing and manipulation via the application itself), and on the other hand enables complete and comprehensive indexing (including content indexing a la DevonThink), labelling, rating, renaming, tagging and sophisticated searching. No single application does all this successfully, whilst remaining reliably stable; certainly Yep does not do it all - it could be built upon, but the signs are that it won't be. Finder replacements, Spotlight extensions and self-contained document-managers also have gone some of the way, but not all. The release of OSX Mavericks has raised the salience of this need, but as I say, despite the obvious usefulness and possibilities of tags under Mavericks (not just as an addition or replacement for folder hierarchies), the need remains unsatisfied.