Anyone keeping up with Roam? After its initial flurry of attention and the ensuing backlash (based in part if I remember correctly on some poorly-received public utterances), it seems to be chugging along. As one of the many who can't install software on their work computers, I remain kindly interested in programs allowing the use of a web browser and syncing with an installation on another computer. I understand that there are data ownership and security issues, but it's hard to avoid those if information can't be stored on one of the computers that uses it.

I keep hoping that Logseq's database version would solve this for me, but I can't find a ballpark ETA (and I may be past my prime for doing what it takes to adopt that system).

Thanks for any insights you can share.

Roam Research has been maturely nicely. Although I know there is some understandable skepticism of AI on this forum, it's perhaps worth noting that the "Live AI" extension for Roam Research is extremely capable, and can converse with outlines and even make edits from the chat using the model of your choice. (You have to add your own API key---I first made the mistake of adding a Claude key but not adding funding on the Claude API page.) Although the extension isn't exactly beginner-friendly, this capability sets Roam apart as perhaps the only true outliner with robust, in-app, editing-capable AI chat (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I've been using Roam since the early days, and I find it a stable and mature product.

I'm a basic user, I'm probably just using 10% of what it's capable of.

But I do use it every day, in fact it's the first page I open in the morning, as it's automatic Daily Notes page reminds me what I've planned ahead for the given day, and it also serves as a record of what I've accomplished during each day (and then week, and month, and year).

It has emerged as a powerful way of managing memory and personal history, and as a planning tool.

I'm aware that other software now can also do this, but there is a certain ease of use with the way wiki links and date links and automatic backlinks are created that made me stick with it (and also the cross-platform function).

The mobile app is kind of slow, I prefer to just open the page in a browser, and even then it takes a while for it to load, but that's a compromise I can live with, if I get access to my graph on the go.

I'm also a WorkFlowy user, which now also has some of these features, but I still prefer to use Roam for the daily task management, and WorkFlowy for tracking and developing longer-term projects, or for ad hoc outlining and breaking down and accomplishing tasks.

I also use Obsidian for different purposes, such as writing and storing longer documents, including a diary.

Probably one could just use one of these tools for all of these functions, but I enjoy the particular strengths of each of these software and also I don't necessarily trust them equally with all of my data.

I don't claim to be a particularly productive person but these three tools (in combination with Google Calendar) help me deal with the complexities of managing my personal, family, and work life in this day and age.

Very helpful, thanks. I use Obsidian a lot, and it wasn't too bad importing its data into Roam (although massaging it for Roam will be an ongoing project). I have been using Tana since its early days and think it's great, but increasingly find it best for power users -- I've fallen into the dreaded CRIMPer's habit of spending more time customizing it than I am working with it. Roam and Logseq seem to be best at linking to/embedding individual blocks, which is a feature I really like -- it helps me knit together the most relevant parts of longer articles, etc., about a topic. That helps keep me from continuing to accrue information about a topic that I'll never use because the amount has become unwieldy to work with.

exatty95 wrote:

I have been using Tana since its early days and think
it's great, but increasingly find it best for power users -- I've fallen
into the dreaded CRIMPer's habit of spending more time customizing it
than I am working with it.

I looked into Tana a few times but I found it too taxing on the brain to have to think of all the possibilities that the architecture allows.

Roam just allows me to function as a basic user, using just a few key features that I really like.

Roam and Logseq seem to be best at linking
to/embedding individual blocks, which is a feature I really like -- it
helps me knit together the most relevant parts of longer articles, etc.,
about a topic. That helps keep me from continuing to accrue information
about a topic that I'll never use because the amount has become unwieldy
to work with.

Yes, the various embedding and linking functions are very helpful. On Mondays for instance I create a list of objectives for that week, and then I embed the weekly list in the daily pages of that week, and then every day I am reminded of what I still need to do (and can select activities to schedule for that day) and also see visually what I've already accomplished that week.

As a former fairly devoted-if-unskilled Tinderbox user (its Mac-only status reduced its use when I moved to a Windows-based job), I find Tana's supertags/fields approach to be much easier to implement effectively than Tinderbox's attributes. I know that Logseq has attributes/properties, and Roam may too, but I haven't figured those out yet

Good (important) point. If Tinderbox were being born today, it would be Tana.

exatty95 wrote:

I find Tana's supertags/fields approach to be much easier to implement
effectively than Tinderbox's attributes.