A question for our resident GV experts (Derek & Cassius).

The recent references to GrandView whetted my appetite (again) so I thought I would have another go at running v.2 under Win XP.

I see from earlier posts here that the syntax /A/V/L/T/W was suggested. However, I can't see anything in the help materials describing start-up switches. Can someone describe what these do?

Specifically, I would like to run GV in a window but of a larger size than currently appears. Fiddling with the DOS properties gives me the correct size display but as soon as GV loads it reverts to a smaller size. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

Jack

Derek has apparently had better success running GV under Win XP than have I. Many of the things I could do in Win 2000, won't work for me in XP, but most seem to work for him.

/A I don't know what this does--can't find in Reference
/V Displays 43/50 lines`per screen
/L Loads the last saved GV windo setup
/T Disables network support
/W Disables GV's functions ALT-TAB and ALT-Spacebar for Windows compatibility

There are several more command line parameters.

Currently, I am running GV using a shortcut to the program
c:/Program Files/Grandview/GV.exe /L/V . (/W doesn't seem to be needed)

In the GV "shortcut" properties panels:

I use True Type only fonts; Font size 13x22. This seems to work best for me
All memory options "Auto"

All screen options checked, but run in a Window, not full screen so I have ready access to Windows functions including Cut & paste.

In Misc. tab, I allow fast pasting, warn if still active, always suspend background, and have all Windows shortcut keys checked.

Compatibility tab has 640x480 resolution, 256 colors, and Windows compatibility mode doesn;t seem to make a difference.

GV is complex with many hidden features. Even with the paper Reference Guide, it took me a long time to master it. And G-d knows if it will run at all under Vista or Win 7. GV has fontd (shown by colors), but no graphics. Mouse (touchpad) won't work for me; I think it does for Derek.

A few notes:

Close with ALT-Q
Press ALT-F1 to activate menu bar
Many functions are hidden. See: Setup - Key Options
Almost any function can be assigned to almost any key option.
"Force left" and "Force right" are very useful.

-cassius

--------------------------
Jack Crawford wrote:

A question for our resident GV experts (Derek & Cassius).

The recent references to
GrandView whetted my appetite (again) so I thought I would have another go at running
v.2 under Win XP.

I see from earlier posts here that the syntax /A/V/L/T/W was
suggested. However, I can't see anything in the help materials describing start-up
switches. Can someone describe what these do?

Specifically, I would like to run GV
in a window but of a larger size than currently appears. Fiddling with the DOS
properties gives me the correct size display but as soon as GV loads it reverts to a
smaller size. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

Jack

Jack,

I just use "/A /V" at present. I've been using /A for years but had completely forgotten why, until you asked. It supresses the initial splash screen, which is dramatic but slow. There's quite a lot of GV arcana in the original outliners.com archives, e.g: http://www.outlinersoftware.com/archives/viewt/2160

More or less everything else is as Cassius has mentioned. In the Misc tab, I don't check the "Alt-Enter" shortcut key, which switches GV from its DOS window to full screen. This is because (a) I never use "full screen" as my laptop DOS fonts are awful, and I get an almost full-size DOS window with my current font setting (see below); and (b) because within GV itself "Alt-Enter" makes a new child heading or sub-heading.

One general point about setting up GV in XP: When one makes a Grandview shortcut icon (the "gv.pif") by right-clicking on "gv.exe" this provides access to a complete range of settings - the ones Cassius discussed. On gv.pif's "fonts" tab I have GV set to use 9x15 TruType fonts.

Once one is in Gv, however, one can access another set of settings by right-clicking anywhere on the top line of the initial menu screen (or any other screen thereafter). By top line I mean the top frame of the screen, which contains the name of the program (Granview, with a little c:\ icon in front of it). In addition to "Move, Size, Minimize, Maximize, Close", right-clicking on the frame also provides access to Edit functions (including cut and paste to and from Windows), Defaults, Properties, and Hide Mouse Pointer.

This Properties tab has a small set of sub-tabs: Options, Font, Layout, Colors. On the Font tab I have 12x14 Raster checked, and this gives me pretty much a full-size window on my 15" laptop screen. Just why there are two potentially conflicting ways of setting up the fonts is a mystery to me, but it works. I have an idea that the 12x14 raster font may not be a standard one but one I bought from Uwe Sieber for $8. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/dosfon_e.html

I have experimented with a variety of ways of getting better cut-and-paste between DOS and XP than the ones provided by XP's DOS window. TameDOS http://www.tamedos.com/ is probably the best of all programs for tweaking DOS programs in XP, but it is very fiddly to set up, and I've not unfortunately persevered enough to get it working satisfactorily - so I currently don't use it.

Incidentally, as well as Cassius, prresent and past experts on GV in this forum include Steve Cohen, and Steve Zeoli. They have a much deeper appreciation of the scope of the program than I do.

Good luck!

Per Derek's "top bar," right click Menu/Properties/Font setting, I use 6x12 raster for a 12" screen. Also on Layout tab, I use 80x50 for buffer & window size. I had to play around A LOT to get a screen I was somewhat satisfied with. I could never get the full GV screen to show both large enough and without the need to scroll down 3 lines to see its bottom.

Are you SURE you want to do this? Be prepared to spend a LOT of time! And I don't just mean setting GV up in Windows...I spent a lot of time learning and customizing GV for my needs. By the way, it also has keyboard macros.

-Cassius

Thanks for the various suggestions. I'll experiment with them and see how I go.

I'm prepared to invest a reasonable (but not unlimited) amount of time ito see whether GV meets my writing/drafting needs. I would have been perfectly happy with Notemap if it wasn't so buggy.

BTW I thought Cassius was Steve Cohen's alter ego. I may have my lines crossed of course. ;-)

Thanks again

Jack

Wouldn't it be better to run Grandview under a DOS emulator, like DOSBox? See http://www.dosbox.com/

If memory does not deceive me, I did this a few years ago.

Manfred

Actually, this suggestion has been made by others in the past as well. Just search for "DOSBox".

Manfred

Manfred wrote:

Wouldn't it be better to run Grandview under a DOS emulator, like DOSBox? See
http://www.dosbox.com/

If memory does not deceive me, I did this a few years ago.

Manfred

----------------

But if GV is run in DOSBox, will one be able to copy/paste between GV and a Windows program?
-c

Jack,

If you intend to print with GV, better check that it will work with your printer. GV did have a program to modify printer drivers. I may have it. I know that I did modify a printer driver nearly 20 years ago.

-c

Cassius wrote:

Jack,

If you intend to print with GV, better check that it will work with your
printer. GV did have a program to modify printer drivers. I may have it. I know that I did
modify a printer driver nearly 20 years ago.

Thanks but I'm not planning on printing from GV but intend to use the export facility (assuming I can get it working).

While I have your attention, you mentioned earlier that GV had other command line switches. Would you happen to know what they are?

TIA

Jack

Jack Crawford wrote:

While I have your attention, you mentioned earlier that GV had other
command line switches. Would you happen to know what they are?
Jack

------------
There are 15-20 switches (called parameters). You have the most important ones. Unless you have problems with key combinations or crashes, you don't have use for the others until you are deeply into GV.

Again, I don't recommend using it in XP. It seems to work better for Derek than for me in XP, even though we have virtually the same settings (at least all the ones we compared.). Also, the "compatibility modes" (95/ME/...) don't seem to help at all. The only thing I now use it for is to get semi-confidential info from one file. The reason for that is that if anyone tries to look at it without GV it will look like a jumbled mess. For me, GV in XP is now more of a pain than a benefit and I once used it for EVERYTHING...even creating macros to print math equations.

Yay!
Thank You! When I used /A to stop the splashscreen the program comes up in a
window rather than going full screen. I've been trying to do this for years!

Mainecon

Mainecon's message is missing.

Hello all,

To my surprise, I have been able to get Grandview 2.0 working (after a fashion) on Win7 Professional without resorting to Virtual PC. Although the mouse does not work running it from the CMD prompt, this is not a deal killer for me. I have been able to cut-and-paste from Grandview to Word without problems.

I have been tending to run it in Dosbox, however, so the mouse _does_ work, albeit strangely, and I can work full-screen, which is GREAT. I get the outline like I want it, save the file. Then, when my file is ready to paste to Word, I go to the CMD prompt, reopen my file and cut-and-paste from there, a la DOS right mouse click.

(I have to Alt-TAB out of Dosbox to get the mouse to exit the Dosbox window, or even tp close down Dosbox, though. Disconcerting.)

I don't imagine I'll ever do much with Grandview (which to my surprise was downloadable after minimal Googling). However, I can see why people rave about it.

Regards,
Winter

I found a cmd.exe replacement that runs Grandview nicely on Win7, although it still won't go full screen (I understand there's a workaround for that, which I'll post as soon as I find it.) The mouse works! Still can't print, but oh well.

Download link for tcc/le, a very impressive product (and free) is: http://www.jpsoft.com/downloads/v11/tccle.exe

I just installed Grandview on an XP laptop, and onto a Vista 64 bit laptop.

On the XP laptop, the installation was OK, couldn't run, but I think I can fix. Did it would 3 1/2 floppies.

On the Vista 64, no floppy drive, so I copy it over on USB and placed the files on C:\GV. Got into Dos Prompt and tried to install, but got message of incompatibility with 64 bit Windows.

I really would like to run GV on Vista & Windows 7. Years ago, I used System Commander and had a multi-boot system that I could boot into DOS 6.22. I think System Commander is discontinued, and will not support Vista or Win 7--I would hate to have to do all the work to install a mutli-boot program to get straight DOS--I have two 320 GB HD's with lots of data and programs, and it would take a lot and risk a lot in trying to move stuff around, or even having to reformat the HD to create new partition.

Could I use a DOS boot CD? I don't understand--the DOS Prompt is still in Windows 64 OS, how do I get to just DOS?

Thanks

Backbutton wrote:

I just installed Grandview on an XP laptop, and onto a Vista 64 bit laptop.

On the XP
laptop, the installation was OK, couldn't run, but I think I can fix. Did it would 3 1/2
floppies.

On the Vista 64, no floppy drive, so I copy it over on USB and placed the
files on C:\GV. Got into Dos Prompt and tried to install, but got message of
incompatibility with 64 bit Windows.

I really would like to run GV on Vista & Windows
7. Years ago, I used System Commander and had a multi-boot system that I could boot into
DOS 6.22. I think System Commander is discontinued, and will not support Vista or Win
7--I would hate to have to do all the work to install a mutli-boot program to get
straight DOS--I have two 320 GB HD's with lots of data and programs, and it would take a
lot and risk a lot in trying to move stuff around, or even having to reformat the HD to
create new partition.

Could I use a DOS boot CD? I don't understand--the DOS Prompt
is still in Windows 64 OS, how do I get to just DOS?

Thanks

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is my understanding that DOS in Win XP and later (and maybe also in Win 2000) isn't really DOS as we and GrandView knew it. If it were, GV would work fine in the so-called Win 3.1 compatibility mode. I seem to remember that Win 3.1 was built on top of the real DOS.

Again, I don't recommend running GV in later versions of Windows. It is too much of a pain. Inspiration or one of the other single-pane outliners recently suggested may be more satisfying although GV certainly had more features. (DON'T use NoteMap!)

Cassius wrote:

It is my understanding that DOS in Win XP and later (and maybe also in Win 2000) isn?t really DOS as we and GrandView knew it.
If it were, GV would work fine in the so-called Win 3.1 compatibility mode. I seem to remember that Win 3.1 was built on top of the real DOS.

Right you are; Windows up to 95/98 was a graphic environment atop the DOS shell. Windows NT / 2000 / XP and onwards is a self standing operating system. This system provides a non-graphical environment, but even though you can use DOS commands there, it is still Windows.

Your best bet for DOS programs are probably the command line environments mentioned earlier in this thread, i.e. DOSBOX and tcc/le. There might be others, such as 4DOS http://www.4dos.info/