DEVONthink 4 is now available in public beta.

https://www.devontechnologies.com/apps/devonthink

The headline is the deep integration of AI with DEVONthink. Choose your favorite AI, or switch depending on the task. This integration is far better than when Google does with NotebookLM. AI in DEVONthink is far more sophisticated and useful than AI chat in apps like Craft. DEVONthink 4 is an annual subscription sort of like Agendas -- you keep what you paid for in the past, but you don't get new features without re-upping the subscription.

(In fact, Craft is now in beta with something it calls "CHAPS" ("chat apps"), which seems like starting up a new product because they cannot figure out how to monetize AI in their formerly core product.)

Looks interesting. I saw some early pushback over the licensing model, which I don't agree with. As with similar apps like EagleFiler the app's license is limited to two Macs. (EagleFiler also lets you add a Family license as well as a site license based on number of users [eg 5 users is $240, 10 is $300].) The $49-$99 upgrade for Standard/Pro users seems pretty reasonable.

When Agenda introduced its licensing model I doubted its success but I was wrong about that. A small number of devs, including now DEVONthink's, have embraced it as a compromise between the subscription and upgrade models. (That said, Agenda hasn't offered enough to get me to re-resubscribe: right now the only added benefit since my sub expires is 'Filter & Fold Text'.)

DEVON also updated the web interface and say they improved the text editor. When I used the owned and used the app a couple of revisions ago text editing became painfully slow inside a large database, so if they have made it snappy it could be an app one could live inside for production.

MacStories got an early look at the app and published an overview.

https://www.macstories.net/reviews/ai-adds-a-new-dimension-to-devonthink-4/

I'll have to buy a new Mac to run DT4, unfortunately. My ten year old Macs can't run recent versions of MacOS.

The AI stuff is worrisome, although the see-also functionality is really nice in DT3. The graph/node view looks awesome. Devonagent has had views like that for a long time.

I'm surprised text editing can be affected by database size. The files in a DT "database" are just plain files in the filesystem. They aren't any different from files outside of Devonthink.

Devonthink also controls how many files go in a filesystem folder, which are not one-to-one with groups in DT. You should never end up with a bloated filesystem directory. Part of the reason for that is to allow duplicate file names in a group. Not that you would want to do that, it's just not going to crash Devonthink or cause you to lose files from overwriting.

I am not sure if I have understood the licence model correctly. You get all new versions for one year from the date of purchase.

If you don't then purchase a new licence, you can continue to use the software in its current version.

What happens with the usual annual operating system update from Apple? Will these versions still be supported by the old version of DEVONthink?

How much is the licence fee if I don't update for two years and then buy an extension?
With Tinderbox, I can skip as long as I want and then only pay the usual update fee for another year.

The license model is pretty simple. You ‘own’ the features at the time of purchase and up to a year after purchase, and get updates for a year. If you never renew your subscription ever again you can still use the app with those features even though new features and bug fixes will have been released.

With Agenda a year you can still use the the newest app versions without resubscribing, but the features that were introduced after your sub ends will have been paywalled. I don’t think Devon made clear if that is the case but it makes sense: this way they only maintain one updated codebase and make it a low friction, one-click purchase from unlocking the full app.

My ten year old Macs can’t run recent versions of MacOS. ….What happens with the usual annual operating system update from Apple? Will these versions still be supported by the old version of DEVONthink?

I doubt you’ll see any updates for DT3 that aren’t important bugfixes. If an OS update breaks a discontinued app version most devs don’t spend the time/money to get it working for users who choose not to upgrade. There is a lot of good software that won’t run on your Macs, and a lot of apps that haven’t been updated for your old Macs after updating to new versions.

Amontillado wrote:

I'm surprised text editing can be affected by database size.

This was an issue for me with DT1 and got worse in DT2. Severe typing lag. One of several reasons (including not needing all the app’s features) that I switched to EagleFiler, which I think I’ve used since DT3 was released in 2019.

(That said, I ultimately gave up on using a shoebox app for writing in.)

Amontillado wrote:

The AI stuff is worrisome, although the see-also functionality is really
nice in DT3.

I share your concerns about the AI. There is no way I’m going to send my documents online to ChatGPT/Claude etc..

It seems however that there is the option of using a locally installed AI model ( Ollama and LM Studio ). From what i briefly seen, this doesn’t look however like an easy thing to do , although LM Studio seems a bit easier and better documented.

I think DevonTech is missing the opportunity here of implementing one of these local AIs directly in DT4. Most users who want privacy are probably going to look at the external install process of these 2 models and just give up before even trying…

Something was definitely amiss, which is a shame.

EagleFiler, if I understand correctly, is a database used to reference regular files on your filesystem. DT is the same thing, really.

If you go to a document, right click, and choose "reveal in Finder" you'll see the document is still a regular file. You can edit it with any editor you want, which will just be opening a file in the filesystem, not hooking through Devonthink.

That's not the right way to use an external editor because Devonthink won't update itself, particularly the file checksum it maintains to verify files aren't damaged.

satis wrote:

Amontillado wrote:

>I'm surprised text editing can be affected by database size.

This was an issue for me with DT1 and got worse in DT2. Severe typing
lag. One of several reasons (including not needing all the app’s
features) that I switched to EagleFiler, which I think I’ve used
since DT3 was released in 2019.

(That said, I ultimately gave up on using a shoebox app for writing in.)

Agreed. I need to retreat to my home turf, Linux, or I need to get new Macs.

Because Devonthink is critical to me, I think I'll overspend on a Macbook and use it like a desktop, too.

Oh, well, ten years is a long time to be happy with a computer. Except for being left behind by the OS, I'm still completely happy with them.


satis wrote:

> My ten year old Macs can’t run recent versions of MacOS.
….What happens with the usual annual operating system update from
Apple? Will these versions still be supported by the old version of
DEVONthink?

I doubt you’ll see any updates for DT3 that aren’t important
bugfixes. If an OS update breaks a discontinued app version most devs
don’t spend the time/money to get it working for users who choose
not to upgrade. There is a lot of good software that won’t run on
your Macs, and a lot of apps that haven’t been updated for your
old Macs after updating to new versions.