Wikilinks and backlinks, new features to Curio, make it feel more agile. Figures (things like text frames) don't have titles. As you enter a Wikilink you search by text and tags to find what you want to link to. In that regard it's like The Archive, which I believe is an outgrowth of Notational Velocity.

I still like MindNode but I generally reach for Curio when I want to make a mind map. Curio's mind mapper has more features than MindNode and if I want to add other things as I brainstorm I'm already where I need to be.

My eye always wanders, which is why I come to this forum for therapy. However, between Curio and Devonthink, I can do just about anything I need regarding planning, brainstorming, and warehousing information.

Whatever tools we choose, we have great power at our fingertips. The great siege weapons of individual information warfare - tools like Easy Data Transform, Curio, Devonthink, Obsidian, Affinity Publisher, Mellel, Nisus, and on, and on - visit fear to tyrants' hearts. And you can watch cat videos, too.

It's a wonderful life.

:-D

I love the idea of visiting fear on tyrants’ hearts – while watching cat videos. I must practise...

Amontillado wrote:

My eye always wanders, which is why I come to this forum for therapy.

Whatever tools we choose, we have great power at our fingertips. The
great siege weapons of individual information warfare - tools like Easy
Data Transform, Curio, Devonthink, Obsidian, Affinity Publisher, Mellel,
Nisus, and on, and on - visit fear to tyrants' hearts. And you can watch
cat videos, too.

It's a wonderful life.

I've always liked Curio, so I am glad to learn it is still vibrantly being updated. I'd use it if I didn't spend my work days on a Windows PC. In fact, I think it would be perfect for some of my projects in the office.

Thanks for the update.

Steve

Curio is one of the most impressive tools of its kind.

However, a small number of essential quality-of-life issues have gotten in my way of using it:

1. PDF export/print will frequently create lines that are vertically cut in half, with the top of the characters separated from the bottom.

2. No 'text editor' mode exists: Text is always regarded as a graphical box with a defined width and height. To write longer pieces, I found I had to revert to integration with external markdown files, which is clumsy. This is unlike Tinderbox, which offers a Map view and an Outline view of the same document and a separation of 'body text' and 'label' per note.

3. Sharing information collaboratively on an ongoing basis is impossible (that includes the aspect of Mac-only support). This is in contrast to Obsidian, where it's clunky but can be done for small teams (via Sync or Github).

4. Basic export via the clipboard to PowerPoint does not render graphical formatting correctly. Sorry, but that's a hard show stopper for any business use?

This situation breaks my hard, in light of all of the awesome goodness across so many other powerful features.
I would rate Curio a 6/5 stars. Sadly, because of 1.-4. will not try to use it again - in the past, it became a black hole for my work, which I then had to redo with inferior tools that didn't suffer from the same limitations.

Very good points, Moritz, and I can't disagree. My use of Curio has been limited to two cases. I use it for planning or brainstorming and I like it as a math notebook. Math, unfortunately, doesn't like me as much as I like Curio as a whiteboard.

Tinderbox has always interested me. I own a license I've kept fresh for quite a while. I should revisit it. If Tinderbox had the polished appearance of Curio and comprehensive documentation it would be a fascinating tool. ATbref gets better all the time, so I guess I should probably ease off on my criticism.

Curio has picked up one of Tinderbox's concepts, the agent. Composite figures like mind maps or lists can be created by query. I haven't used that much although I think the feature is pretty neat.

Thank you for your comments. Great food for thought.

moritz wrote:

Curio is one of the most impressive tools of its kind.

However, a small number of essential quality-of-life issues have gotten
in my way of using it:

1. PDF export/print will frequently create lines that are vertically cut
in half, with the top of the characters separated from the bottom.

2. No 'text editor' mode exists: Text is always regarded as a graphical
box with a defined width and height. To write longer pieces, I found I
had to revert to integration with external markdown files, which is
clumsy. This is unlike Tinderbox, which offers a Map view and an Outline
view of the same document and a separation of 'body text' and 'label'
per note.

3. Sharing information collaboratively on an ongoing basis is impossible
(that includes the aspect of Mac-only support). This is in contrast to
Obsidian, where it's clunky but can be done for small teams (via Sync or
Github).

4. Basic export via the clipboard to PowerPoint does not render
graphical formatting correctly. Sorry, but that's a hard show stopper
for any business use?

This situation breaks my hard, in light of all of the awesome goodness
across so many other powerful features.
I would rate Curio a 6/5 stars. Sadly, because of 1.-4. will not try to
use it again - in the past, it became a black hole for my work, which I
then had to redo with inferior tools that didn't suffer from the same
limitations.

I tried using Curio for quite a while as it looked so good on paper: but I gave up a few years ago mainly because of your point 2 on the lack of a proper text editor. This lack of easy (and what i would consider genuine) notes.

I'd been playing with Tinderbox at that time but dropping Curio led me to use it properly and with the changes to Tinderbox over the past few years (I started on 5, it's now on 9.7) it's become both even more powerful but also easier to use. I'm a relatively unsophisticated user, but I use it every day and couldn't do my research without it.

The 'lack of documentation' has become much less true than it was: Tinderbox has a really helpful user base and there is now a whole set of how-to videos from a user who has charted his use from causal to expert, and there's a lot of tips and tricks posts too.

(Apologies if this is beginning to sound a bit fan-boy).

moritz wrote:

Curio is one of the most impressive tools of its kind.

However, a small number of essential quality-of-life issues have gotten
in my way of using it:

1. PDF export/print will frequently create lines that are vertically cut
in half, with the top of the characters separated from the bottom.

2. No 'text editor' mode exists: Text is always regarded as a graphical
box with a defined width and height. To write longer pieces, I found I
had to revert to integration with external markdown files, which is
clumsy. This is unlike Tinderbox, which offers a Map view and an Outline
view of the same document and a separation of 'body text' and 'label'
per note.

3. Sharing information collaboratively on an ongoing basis is impossible
(that includes the aspect of Mac-only support). This is in contrast to
Obsidian, where it's clunky but can be done for small teams (via Sync or
Github).

4. Basic export via the clipboard to PowerPoint does not render
graphical formatting correctly. Sorry, but that's a hard show stopper
for any business use?

This situation breaks my hard, in light of all of the awesome goodness
across so many other powerful features.
I would rate Curio a 6/5 stars. Sadly, because of 1.-4. will not try to
use it again - in the past, it became a black hole for my work, which I
then had to redo with inferior tools that didn't suffer from the same
limitations.

Fanboy? Not at all. One should be enthusiastic about tools.

Curio may have evolved some. If you want to type a text note that's 10,000 lines long, it won't be that much different than using a Markdown or RTF editor. These days a text box grows and scrolls vertically as needed. You set the width of a text figure, Curio scales the height to contain your text.

I don't write drafts in Curio, unless you count working on embedded word processing documents. Curio is a lot like Obsidian's Canvas, except with almost no effort it has a pleasant, well produced appearance.

It's not for everything. I have some large document collections that would be poor candidates for Curio. Just like I wouldn't try to store a library of PDF's in MindNode, which is a fine but focused application, I wouldn't put a thousand PDF's in Curio.

For replacing a wall full of sticky notes, it's cool. Mind mapping in Curio does more than many mind map applications, although some of the features don't jump out. I didn't realize at first that every node can have file attachments, a text note, and other things.

Curio was also sort of on the shelf for a long time. Things that got me back into using it were enhancements like synced text figures, where a single note can appear in multiple places, or a mind map node can appear in more than one mind map.

The biggest drawback is probably the lack of an iOS version. That's a deal-killer for many. I don't like cloud sharing, not that I have anything to hide other than embarrassment over crummy writing, and I prefer my laptop to my iPad. I rarely touch the iOS version of any application, so no iOS is no big deal for me.

Later today I'm going to fire up Tinderbox again and see if I can make my peace with agents, edicts, stamps, lions, and tigers, oh my. ;-)


Rausch wrote:

I tried using Curio for quite a while as it looked so good on paper: but
I gave up a few years ago mainly because of your point 2 on the lack of
a proper text editor. This lack of easy (and what i would consider
genuine) notes.

I'd been playing with Tinderbox at that time but dropping Curio led me
to use it properly and with the changes to Tinderbox over the past few
years (I started on 5, it's now on 9.7) it's become both even more
powerful but also easier to use. I'm a relatively unsophisticated user,
but I use it every day and couldn't do my research without it.

The 'lack of documentation' has become much less true than it was:
Tinderbox has a really helpful user base and there is now a whole set of
how-to videos from a user who has charted his use from causal to expert,
and there's a lot of tips and tricks posts too.

(Apologies if this is beginning to sound a bit fan-boy).

moritz wrote:

Curio is one of the most impressive tools of its kind.

However, a small number of essential quality-of-life issues have gotten
in my way of using it:

I'll only note where I think some insights are needed ...

1. PDF export/print will frequently create lines that are vertically cut
in half, with the top of the characters separated from the bottom.

I believe that you would get prompt attention if you would try to resolve this issue with George, the developer.

4. Basic export via the clipboard to PowerPoint does not render
graphical formatting correctly. Sorry, but that's a hard show stopper
for any business use?

Again, have you contacted George to try to resolve this?

Also, to your ending question mark ... The fact that PowerPoint dominates business use for presentations does not make it the gold standard for proper handling of content that one tries to add to it. IOW, you may be premature to implicitly blame Curio for seeming to put the wrong content on its clipboard rather than blaming PowerPoint for having no clue how to import complex (but otherwise perfectly formatted) content from the clipboard.

J J, I told George about the PDF/page break issue years ago. He is aware, and is always super responsive. Great guy. Alas, a fix would not be trivial and to my knowledge has not been implemented (I stopped upgrading last August, so still on v26).

I would imagine that the clipboard issue is similar: Once something breaks at this level, using deep features of Mac OS, a fix might be non trivial. To be honest, I didn't reach out to George as I feel that by jumping off the upgrade bandwagon, he should be focused on his current paying customers - and I don't have the v28 license to reproduce the issue with the most current build.

J J Weimer wrote:

moritz wrote:
>Curio is one of the most impressive tools of its kind.
>
>However, a small number of essential quality-of-life issues have gotten
>in my way of using it:

I'll only note where I think some insights are needed ...

>
>1. PDF export/print will frequently create lines that are vertically
cut
>in half, with the top of the characters separated from the bottom.

I believe that you would get prompt attention if you would try to
resolve this issue with George, the developer.

>4. Basic export via the clipboard to PowerPoint does not render
>graphical formatting correctly. Sorry, but that's a hard show stopper
>for any business use?

Again, have you contacted George to try to resolve this?

Also, to your ending question mark ... The fact that PowerPoint
dominates business use for presentations does not make it the gold
standard for proper handling of content that one tries to add to it.
IOW, you may be premature to implicitly blame Curio for seeming to put
the wrong content on its clipboard rather than blaming PowerPoint for
having no clue how to import complex (but otherwise perfectly formatted)
content from the clipboard.

For a nice, and free, Curio alternative – that isn’t, I would be the first to admit, anything like as comprehensive as Curio – it’s well worth checking out Growly Notes, which has been around for years.

It’s a kind of OneNote for Mac, but has its own very powerful features (including the kind of partitioned treatment of PDFs featured in Curio). And is, as I say, free of charge.

The developer did release an iOS version some years back, but take-up was poor, so he sensibly abandoned it again. Its editing capabilities are much superior to Curio’s, frankly, and it has a broad range of export options (including HTML). It supports a vast range of import options, too, including movies, audio files and web pages (as well as video and audio recordings). It also supports tags, tables and shared notebooks. You can attach files, too, and I’ve found that while it isn’t closely integrated with Curiota in the same way as Curio, it does work very well together with Curiota (as does, for that matter, Keep It).

I like Curio, but gave it up long ago, and have used Growly Notes for various multimedia projects since then. It’s regularly updated (the developer also publishes a variety of free games and utilities), and can be found at: https://growlybird.com

The developer, Chris, worked for Microsoft a couple of times – he’s very entertaining on the subject, and is very amiable altogether! He programs for the love of it, just like Maurice.

Cheers,
Bill

Sorry – it’s also worth mentioning that as well as tags, Growly Notes has drawing tools, custom templates, auto-backups, password protection, custom settings for pages/sections/notebooks, and various built-in templates (with e.g. background lines, grids etc.). As well as favourites, plus a very good search function (universal search + highlighting, list of hits in right-hand navbar).

And its footprint is a small fraction of equivalent apps (on disk: a truly tiny 25MB – yes, you read that right, MB, not GB! The sigil of a truly competent programmer!)

Alas, Growly Notes is Mac-only.

Cheers,
Bill

Quick update - Curio is 20 years old today. Zengobi is offering it for 20% off through the end of the month.

Mac-only, very handy for outlining and storyboarding either with graphics or text.

Not bad, although at other times like Black Friday it's 30%

The effective discounted price for a Pro license is $95.99.
12 months of upgrades cost $79.99 - no special discount :-(
I might buy another upgrade in 2 years to contain the cost of my 'Curio-sity'.

Amontillado wrote:

Quick update - Curio is 20 years old today. Zengobi is offering it for
20% off through the end of the month.

Mac-only, very handy for outlining and storyboarding either with
graphics or text.

Curio 29 is out and it's really neat for certain purposes.

It's still not a document library on par with Devonthink. Tinderbox can do more automation than Curio, although Curio now has queries. I'll concede Curio has higher friction than other systems but it excels at producing a polished view of ideas. It is very easy on the eyes.

The big news in Curio 29 is something George calls Compositions. These are like the pinboards Curio has long had (sort of like sub-canvases) but they behave like a GUI's grid layout manager, if that makes sense. Basically, a rectangular thing you can drag other things into.

You can put almost anything in a Composition including other Compositions, lists, mind maps, pretty much any Curio structure.

As you drag the members of a Composition around, they snap to being above, below, right, or left of anything already existing in the Composition.

Anything in the composition that changes size reflows the layout, retaining the grid.

You aren't restricted to the same number of columns in any row, or equal numbers of rows in any column. It's freeform but with a nicely regulated layout.

For instance, I have a story I keep thinking (ha!) would make a nice novel. I hack away at it from time to time.

Tonight, I had some new ideas and tried a new-to-me way of getting them on (virtual) paper.

I put short lists into a Composition. My lists were outlines, basically, except mostly one level. Bullet points of what happens, one little list per general area of the story.

Those lists are in a column on the left side of the Composition.

In the right column in that Composition, I've got notes on what Curio calls index cards. In the list that steps through Colonel Mustard whacking somebody in the Library with a lead pipe, I can have sidebars about the Colonel, his trusty lead pipe, and the Library. Anywhere those notes appear I can edit them. Change one copy, change all.

An index card has a "collapse" triangle on the title line. What I discovered today is the body of the index card can contain a synced text figure.

In plain English, I can have collections of notes about people, places, and things. Beside any outline where such things pertain, I can put a synced copy of a relevant note. Better yet, if I put that synced copy in an index card, I can collapse the notes, saving real estate.

This is fun stuff!

Thanks for the update, @Amontillado, and for the entertaining musings on the Compositions feature...

It sounds enticing!

Cheers!
About-to-be-CRIMPing Bill

Indeed. It is great to see an app that's been around so long, and is still receiving significant upgrades and support.