MadaboutDana wrote:

I've started to experiment with a very interesting writing app, Lattics
(https://lattics.zineapi.com which uses a kind of "cards alongside
articles" approach, but with extra goodies like a mindmap-alike view.
It's this mix of rapid note jotting and long-form article writing that
appeals to me – you can, of course, do such things in any
number of other apps, but Lattics has what it describes as a "workbench"
approach that's particularly appealing. As is the auto-templated layout
and handling of references (a very convenient way to produce academic
papers, if one feels so inclined). Lattics also does the Ulysses thing
of combining multiple notes in a single scrolling view.

I've had a look. Fundamentally a very nice design; will be even better when the whiteboard is there too. I found the keyboard response very jerky, and couldn't see a setting to have the cards in a typical card view rather than a single column. @links rather than [[wikilinks]].

Has the advantage of being all in one, but doesn't have the features or (first impression) usability of my current Word, Mindomo, OneNote combo. Would integrate with Tangent/Obsidian quite well though since it's easy to drag markdown notes in. No first line indent for paragraphs either.

Wow, what a nice neat and obvious interface...!

I'm going to give this one some time! Thanks for bringin it up!

Wow, what a nice neat and obvious interface...!

I'm going to give this one some time! Thanks for bringin it up!

I'd agree that Lattics takes a slightly tangential approach to writing, but I do like the total integration and the developers' enthusiasm.

The most disconcerting thing for me is that it really isn't obvious where the actual files are stored. You can export them, of course, but I like to know where the actual repository is!

Dormouse wrote:

MadaboutDana wrote:
>I've started to experiment with a very interesting writing app, Lattics
>(https://lattics.zineapi.com which uses a kind of "cards alongside
>articles" approach, but with extra goodies like a mindmap-alike view.
>It's this mix of rapid note jotting and long-form article writing that
>appeals to me – you can, of course, do such things in any
>number of other apps, but Lattics has what it describes as a
"workbench"
>approach that's particularly appealing. As is the auto-templated layout
>and handling of references (a very convenient way to produce academic
>papers, if one feels so inclined). Lattics also does the Ulysses thing
>of combining multiple notes in a single scrolling view.

I've had a look. Fundamentally a very nice design; will be even better
when the whiteboard is there too. I found the keyboard response very
jerky, and couldn't see a setting to have the cards in a typical card
view rather than a single column. @links rather than [[wikilinks]].

Has the advantage of being all in one, but doesn't have the features or
(first impression) usability of my current Word, Mindomo, OneNote combo.
Would integrate with Tangent/Obsidian quite well though since it's easy
to drag markdown notes in. No first line indent for paragraphs either.

On Windows I've been assuming it's in AppData, but I've not checked.

MadaboutDana wrote:

I'd agree that Lattics takes a slightly tangential approach to writing,
but I do like the total integration and the developers' enthusiasm.

The most disconcerting thing for me is that it really isn't obvious
where the actual files are stored. You can export them, of course, but I
like to know where the actual repository is!

The website doesn't mention pricing. When you download the app, it tells you that it costs $21 per year or $4 per month for the pro version.

Limitations of the free version: no export, no writing statistics.

$21 per year!!

surely that's not tenable! I really wish I was in the room when some devs price out their products, sometimes!

Cyganet wrote:

The website doesn't mention pricing. When you download the app, it tells
you that it costs $21 per year or $4 per month for the pro version.

Limitations of the free version: no export, no writing statistics.

$21 per year!!

surely that's not tenable! I really wish I was in the room when some devs price out their products, sometimes!

Cyganet wrote:

The website doesn't mention pricing. When you download the app, it tells
you that it costs $21 per year or $4 per month for the pro version.

Limitations of the free version: no export, no writing statistics.

Depends on local costs presumably. More tenable than free.
Scrintal seems to be selling quite a few lifetime licences - is that tenable? Price is rising next month.

bigspud wrote:

$21 per year!!

surely that's not tenable!

Nice new overview from Shu Omi. He likes the app's easy comprehensibility from launch without needing to evaluate plugins and customize, but notes the lack of import from sources like Readwise, and there's no mobile app.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8DCjHAh01s

satis wrote:

Shu Omi .. notes the lack of import from sources like Readwise, and
there's no mobile app.

True. And there's no clipper either.

There are many ways I like Lattics, but it's a very enclosed app. Importing is quite limited and so is exporting. Backup is in the form of a json.
It's project based. With each project working like a single markdown file. The mind map is effectively an outline of the file. Which is all okay, but it's relationship with files is entirely import/export which means no easy interoperable working with other programs.
I find that too much of a commitment and risk; I'd prefer to be able to switch in and out by increments. There's still quite a few usability niggles, though the keyboard response I reported previously seems to have improved.

Cyganet wrote:

Limitations of the free version: no export, no writing statistics.

I found that I could do a markdown export on the free version, when I tried it today. And the writing statistics were there.

I#ll just add that the whole structure seems remarkably similar to Writemonkey3 with cards = repository. Entirely different UI oc
And WM3 has the ability to work with external files by keeping them in sync with its json database.

Just a heads up, I confirmed with the Lattics developer that iCloud sync support is planned from next month (February 2025). Currently, OneDrive, WebDAV, and Jianguoyun are the other sync services offered.

I've been surprised at how fast the updates are coming. Recently it's felt as if it's more than one a week, on average. Though I don't know where they keep a change log.

I started to use it seriously because it works so well for writing, and have gradually moved nearly all my note-taking to it. And old notes as and when they are needed.

I have noticed the speed of updates that often include new features.
There was an update waiting for me even today.
As I mentioned previously, when I am able to sync Lattics between my office iMac and my MacBook Air, I will put this app to the real test.
Will it be able to replace Scrivener and (possibly Obsidian)? How will the learning curve be? How good are the online learning materials (especially video)? How will the output confirm to the fussy requirements of the journals I publish in? How well does it integrate with reference managers? These are some of the questions I will search answers for. I have a window of just over a month when I can concentrate on writing, so I appreciate all the updates at the moment. Keep them coming! :)


Dormouse wrote:

I've been surprised at how fast the updates are coming. Recently it's
felt as if it's more than one a week, on average. Though I don't know
where they keep a change log.

I started to use it seriously because it works so well for writing, and
have gradually moved nearly all my note-taking to it. And old notes as
and when they are needed.

Darren McDonald wrote:

Will it be able to replace Scrivener and (possibly Obsidian)?

Scrivener, yes.
Obsidian, maybe. It depends on how you use Obsidian and which features and plugins you depend on.

I semi-describe my long journey here - https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=54676.0
Effectively I started with replacing the writing app, and then gradually moved to putting nearly all my notes in it.

You can't necessarily import all your Obsidian notes without effort. Text notes move easily but local images have to be tackled directly; not a problem if you only use links to an external source.

How will the learning curve be?

Well, there's the learning curve AND adapting your workflows. I found the learning curve okay, but adapting slow. But that probably depends on how well your workflows already fit. There's quite a few minor niggles if you try6 to go off what they consider the path. But once you get to know how the fundamentals work, it is pretty straightforward.

How good are the online learning materials (especially video)?

Patchy. They've made a big effort and the online guides and user manuals are mostly updated with new features. But they're not comprehensive and there's no functioning user community, unless it's a secret channel in China. (I may have missed it; I would be grateful to be pointed towards anything that works.) They usually respond to the inapp queries within two or three days.

The reviews etc I've seen are predominantly rubbish. Mostly well out of date and usually by wannabe and actual 'influencers' who try the program for review but aren't actual users; it's as if they made an effort at some point to reach out to potential reviewers, but without the same drive and money that Amplenote have put in.

The speed with which they have been updating and adding major features makes it easier to learn incrementally than absorb it all in one go from a few videos. What Obsidian did in its early days was generate an enthusiastic community who made numerous videos. Amplenote have had a slow progressive strategy. idk if Lattics would have had more obvious success if they had been more plugged into the culture of potential English speaking users - I'm not sure if any of their developers are fluent English speakers. And they seem to have given up on running their Discord.

How will the output confirm to the fussy requirements of the journals I publish in?

I'd expect it to be fine. And it's pretty easy to tweak their templates if you need something slightly different.

How well does it integrate with reference managers?

It's only set up for Zotero. When their Discord had to-and-fro communication they were putting a lot of effort into getting that right.
I haven't tested this out yet myself - I don't use Zotero and what I'm doing rn doesn't require it. I have thought about moving to Zotero.

Thank you, Dormouse, for your detailed comments on some of my questions about Lattics and for sharing insights into how you use the app and how it fits into your workflow.

For the recent conceptual paper I wrote, my workflow primarily involved Zotero and Obsidian as preparation tools before writing up in Scrivener. Since the paper was conceptual, I mainly drew from existing research. I find Zotero incredibly helpful for reading and annotating research papers—after years of trying different reference managers, Zotero works best for me. When I want to focus on a specific theme or topic, I use Obsidian to write mini-essays. I’ve experimented with other apps for this purpose, but there’s something about Obsidian’s user interface that makes it particularly conducive to this kind of writing. Initially, I spent a lot of time customizing Obsidian with various plugins and themes, but I’ve since cut back significantly and now use it primarily as a note-taking tool. I still need to spend more time exploring connections between notes to spark new insights, though I found that many of those connections emerged during the actual writing process in Scrivener. The phrase "writing is thinking" really resonates with me. During moments of "writer’s high," I wrote pages of thinking that didn’t make it into the final paper but were saved in a Scrivener folder I named "future research." I plan to revisit these notes in Obsidian for further development.

Interestingly, I used Dynalist and Bike to brainstorm the flow of the paper in the early stages, even though Obsidian has outline features and was created by the same developers.

For other papers based on fieldwork, I’ve relied on Word documents for PDFs of interview transcripts and field notes. I have access to dedicated qualitative analysis software like Atlas.ti, but I haven’t yet put it to proper use. The learning curve seems excessive for what I want to use Atlas.ti for, but, then again, the software might help me uncover new connections I hadn’t realized were there.

I’m currently exploring Lattics, and its features seem like a great fit for my needs. I’ll need to spend more time using it before I can share any meaningful feedback, but I’ll be sure to update here once I’ve made some progress. :)

Dormouse wrote:

Darren McDonald wrote:

>Will it be able to replace Scrivener and (possibly Obsidian)?

Scrivener, yes.
Obsidian, maybe. It depends on how you use Obsidian and which features
and plugins you depend on.

I semi-describe my long journey here -
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=54676.0
Effectively I started with replacing the writing app, and then gradually
moved to putting nearly all my notes in it.

You can't necessarily import all your Obsidian notes without effort.
Text notes move easily but local images have to be tackled directly; not
a problem if you only use links to an external source.


>How will the learning curve be?

Well, there's the learning curve AND adapting your workflows. I found
the learning curve okay, but adapting slow. But that probably depends on
how well your workflows already fit. There's quite a few minor niggles
if you try6 to go off what they consider the path. But once you get to
know how the fundamentals work, it is pretty straightforward.


>How good are the online learning materials (especially video)?

Patchy. They've made a big effort and the online guides and user manuals
are mostly updated with new features. But they're not comprehensive and
there's no functioning user community, unless it's a secret channel in
China. (I may have missed it; I would be grateful to be pointed towards
anything that works.) They usually respond to the inapp queries within
two or three days.

The reviews etc I've seen are predominantly rubbish. Mostly well out of
date and usually by wannabe and actual 'influencers' who try the program
for review but aren't actual users; it's as if they made an effort at
some point to reach out to potential reviewers, but without the same
drive and money that Amplenote have put in.

The speed with which they have been updating and adding major features
makes it easier to learn incrementally than absorb it all in one go from
a few videos. What Obsidian did in its early days was generate an
enthusiastic community who made numerous videos. Amplenote have had a
slow progressive strategy. idk if Lattics would have had more obvious
success if they had been more plugged into the culture of potential
English speaking users - I'm not sure if any of their developers are
fluent English speakers. And they seem to have given up on running their
Discord.


>How will the output confirm to the fussy requirements of the journals I
publish in?

I'd expect it to be fine. And it's pretty easy to tweak their templates
if you need something slightly different.


>How well does it integrate with reference managers?

It's only set up for Zotero. When their Discord had to-and-fro
communication they were putting a lot of effort into getting that right.
I haven't tested this out yet myself - I don't use Zotero and what I'm
doing rn doesn't require it. I have thought about moving to Zotero.

Just to update with a recent response I received from the developers of Lattics.

"Hi, very sorry
It's very difficult for supporting iCloud, because we choose Electron framework to develop Lattics, and it's not good adapt for iCloud, we suggest to use OneDrive or other WebDAV service"

I appreciate the prompt response I received from the developers, but am disappointed that Lattics is unable to work with iCloud. Since my university tech support cannot enable OneDrive accounts to work with Lattics, I cannot make Lattics a tool in my work. :(

Darren McDonald wrote:

disappointed that Lattics is unable to work with iCloud.

That's sad.
I have most cloud drives, and do nearly all my work on one computer, so I've not found it a restriction. But Jianguoyun and WebDAV were the only sync options for a long time. OneDrive is a relatively recent addition. But it is one of the areas where Lattics is relatively restricted. Rather like only working on Windows and Mac.

A few years ago that would have been sufficient to stop me using it, but I gradually realised that I didn't use the mobile options I'd thought were essential so I don't mind. Ditto for the very limited communication. As it is, it fits my needs so well that I don't anticipate that I'll stop using it - at least in the absence of something really dramatic.

I just received a further response from the developers who let me know that they will keep working on making it possible to have iCloud sync with Lattics.
I am impressed with how the developers are communicating their struggles and hope that they are able to make it happen.

Dormouse, I will reread what you have shared about how you use Lattics and will try to become more familiar with it. It does look to be a valuable tool for doing academic research.

Dormouse wrote:

That's sad.
I have most cloud drives, and do nearly all my work on one computer, so
I've not found it a restriction. But Jianguoyun and WebDAV were the only
sync options for a long time. OneDrive is a relatively recent addition.
But it is one of the areas where Lattics is relatively restricted.
Rather like only working on Windows and Mac.

A few years ago that would have been sufficient to stop me using it, but
I gradually realised that I didn't use the mobile options I'd thought
were essential so I don't mind. Ditto for the very limited
communication. As it is, it fits my needs so well that I don't
anticipate that I'll stop using it - at least in the absence of
something really dramatic.