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A critique of tagging
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Posted by Stephen Zeoli
Nov 4, 2023 at 12:53 PM
I found this critical dissection by Tiago Forte of the problems with tagging interesting:
https://medium.com/praxis-blog/tagging-is-broken-11e46eb24979
It reflects what I’ve long felt about tagging, but I must note that most of the comments are push back.
I don’t like relying on tagging for organization, but rather as a way to add some meta-data to a note.
Anyway, just thought I’d share with this thoughtful group.
Steve
Posted by Amontillado
Nov 4, 2023 at 04:51 PM
I wonder if his opinion has changed since he wrote that post. Just about any tool can be misused.
Posted by Daly de Gagne
Nov 4, 2023 at 05:45 PM
Hi Stephen -
I read this article recently on Medium, and reading again what Tiago Forte wrote my response hasn’t changed.
To some extent, what he has done is set up a straw person, relying on on over-statement and excess generalization.
Tags IMO allow for a quick placing of an item, and eliminate the need to come back to it because it may not be in just the right folder. Forte’s theoretical justification of his position makes him seem learned and a “guru”, but loses site of how different people think, and organize themselves cognitively and externally.
I have many notes and clippings in both Evernote and Pocket. It is far easier for me to work from memory and/or a tag list than use a search or look in folders - tags are more precise and items often are in more than one place, which can be helpful. I am also more likely to see related articles/notes. In the first instance when saving an article or note it is also easier for me to assign tages from memory, and then, if it seems necessary, to review my tag list.
Forte is right that here is a risk of over-tagging, and I do this on occasion, but this risk does not negate the intrinsic value of tagging for me. My experience is that tag names tend to be more specific and helpful than folder names.
One can always use searches, but if you have no tags and many folders, the need increases to use the right search terms. I find that in the first instance, contrary to what Forte says, that tags allow for greater precision and speed, plus having the advantage of easily allowing items to exist in more than one place.
I take issue with Forte’s broad generalizations. For example, in the fifth paragraph from the end, he says, “The real problem with tags, and why they not only fail to help, but actually even hurt people’s creative self-esteem, is that they give the impression that creating such a system requires a heroic feat of comprehensive planning, followed by years of meticulous cataloging and annotating.”
And the last two paragraphs, also are an example of gross over-generalization leading to a conclusion which, I submit, is not justified by the actual experiences of, at least some people, including myself: “The best of the best use organizational systems as a means to a very worthy end: to create rapdid, self-reinforcing learning and feedback loops aimed in the direction of their goals.
“And it all starts by getting rid of tags.”
What Forte doesn’t realize is that we as a species are a varied lot. We have different ways of self-organizing our thoughts, our organization of information, and the way we act in the world. I like some of Forte’s ideas, but in terms of his antipathy to tags, his generalizations and tendency to be overly prescriptive, he seems to be over the top. That may help to sell books and seminars, but in the long run it may well undedmine his authority because, just as in the shoe business, one size does not fit all.
- Daly
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
I found this critical dissection by Tiago Forte of the problems with
>tagging interesting:
>
>https://medium.com/praxis-blog/tagging-is-broken-11e46eb24979
>
>It reflects what I’ve long felt about tagging, but I must note that most
>of the comments are push back.
>
>I don’t like relying on tagging for organization, but rather as a way to
>add some meta-data to a note.
>
>Anyway, just thought I’d share with this thoughtful group.
>
>Steve
Posted by Amontillado
Nov 4, 2023 at 06:18 PM
Here’s a use case for tags I think is justification for their existence.
I have a library of documents, bank statements, and notes. The team is going to meet to discuss something that will naturally involve a number of related topics scattered through the library.
Why not create a tag for the meeting, containing the relevant documents? A little searching, a little tagging, and now I might have a better overview than my colleagues. One virtual folder (the tag) with everything I need, without affecting the organization of my library.
That’s meeting tag relates items that are not about a single subject. They are about a point in time in the execution of a project.
Tags are versatile.
Daly de Gagne wrote:
Hi Stephen -
> “And it all starts by getting rid of tags.”
> What Forte doesn’t realize is that we as a species are a varied lot.
>We have different ways of self-organizing our thoughts, our organization
>of information, and the way we act in the world. I like some of Forte’s
>ideas, but in terms of his antipathy to tags, his generalizations and
>tendency to be overly prescriptive, he seems to be over the top. That
>may help to sell books and seminars, but in the long run it may well
>undedmine his authority because, just as in the shoe business, one size
>does not fit all.
> - Daly
Posted by Daly de Gagne
Nov 4, 2023 at 10:18 PM
Hi Amontillado -
I agree with your use case for tags.
When I first saw tags way back when, I used them in addition to folders. After some time I realized I was no longer using folders. Tags and sub tags (when an option) did the trick. If a tag became obsolete it could be removed, and there was no reason to rename anything, or to move anything, as there would be with folders, because most items had more than one tag. Contrary to what Tiago Forte wrote, tags for me were faster.
One of the issues that I have with Forte is the high degree of authority with which he surrounds his ideas/concepts/declarations. I became more aware of that when his book The PARA Method: Simplify, Organize, and Master Your Digital Life was released, as well as with some of his related video content. And, as you say, “Tags are versatile.”
- Daly
Amontillado wrote:
Here’s a use case for tags I think is justification for their existence.
>
>I have a library of documents, bank statements, and notes. The team is
>going to meet to discuss something that will naturally involve a number
>of related topics scattered through the library.
>
>Why not create a tag for the meeting, containing the relevant documents?
>A little searching, a little tagging, and now I might have a better
>overview than my colleagues. One virtual folder (the tag) with
>everything I need, without affecting the organization of my library.
>
>That’s meeting tag relates items that are not about a single subject.
>They are about a point in time in the execution of a project.
>
>Tags are versatile.
>
>
>Daly de Gagne wrote:
>Hi Stephen -
>> “And it all starts by getting rid of tags.”
>> What Forte doesn’t realize is that we as a species are a varied lot.
>>We have different ways of self-organizing our thoughts, our
>organization
>>of information, and the way we act in the world. I like some of Forte’s
>>ideas, but in terms of his antipathy to tags, his generalizations and
>>tendency to be overly prescriptive, he seems to be over the top. That
>>may help to sell books and seminars, but in the long run it may well
>>undedmine his authority because, just as in the shoe business, one size
>>does not fit all.
>> - Daly
>