Paul in the recent Curio thread mentioned friction, especially in regard to Noteplan and Agenda. The concept of friction as being a deterent to good and efficient note-taking is certainly valid. I had never really thought about it until I began seeing that term pop up relative to note-taking apps, and then I realized that was a reason so many great apps just didn't seem to work for me. Every app has some friction. But I think there is a correlation (though not necessarily one to one) between friction and features. The more features an app has, the more likely it is to have a lot of friction. At least that's my theory. I am wondering if anyone can present a counter example... that is, a feature-rich app that is relatively frictionless.

But what exactly is friction? I guess it is anything that impedes the smooth collection or writing of notes. Having to select a folder, or decide on a tag, or lift fingers from the keyboard to format text or anything like that. But it might be more than that. It might be your relationship to the interface. Is it uninspiring? Or confusing? Do you have to stop and think about what to do next, once you've made your note?

I am thinking that Mem might be an example of a relatively frictionless app, and yet, I find it uninspiring. That's probably just me.

Anyway, I am interested in other recommendations for low-friction note-management apps.

Steve

To me frictionless notetaking apps means effortless writing (fast launch, lack of lag, implementation of quick-capture, simplicity in UI with obvious keyboard shortcuts, attractive and customizable formatting), but also involve other abilities without which I'll quickly abandon the app.

(For example, I know a lot of people who migrated (or whose companies made them migrate) to OneNote, but I encounter a discernable lag when typing in the app which makes it unsuitable for my writing. And I know people who love using Bear and IA Writer but the UI and limits to font/background customization drive me up the wall.)

Foremost is good app and in-note search, but close behind are cross-platform document accessibility, easy sharing, output options. And given this site's focus, levels of hierarchy are also of interest.

Other capabilities involve of and how the app handles linking and tags (a deep and complicated topic) and multimedia.

If software makes it easy to quickly start new, or open an existing document, and get going. And then continue writing without lag. Then it's low friction.

Having written tens of thousands of pages in Word, I would say it for me is the lowest friction app I have. Just writing that feels like heresy. Yes, Word is bulked out with nightmarish ribbons, menus, confusing commands and features, but for basic just-get-it-down-and-fiddle-later writing, it serves me well. I've used it so much for so long that I don't even see the cruft when I'm engaged in writing.

It's interesting that a few tens of thousands of people use Obsidian (their claim), which a few hundred million people use Word (their claim). It can't all be bad.

Do you
have to stop and think about what to do next, once you've made your
note?

I think I would add the word ...again. I can learn how to do things, but if I have to work at remembering a procedure more than twice(I am exaggerating), that is friction.

This is another example of "your mileage may vary." I have the opposite reaction to Word. I hate writing in it. To me, trying to do anything but type in it is a major chore. It doesn't help that Microsoft changes how things work in Word from time to time.

I used to do most of my writing (on my PC) in a plain text editor called Notetab, because it was so easy to open it and start typing (proving your point, Paul). It doesn't work as well in more recent Windows editions, sadly.


Paul Korm wrote:

If software makes it easy to quickly start new, or open an existing
document, and get going. And then continue writing without lag. Then
it's low friction.

Having written tens of thousands of pages in Word, I would say it for me
is the lowest friction app I have. Just writing that feels like heresy.
Yes, Word is bulked out with nightmarish ribbons, menus, confusing
commands and features, but for basic just-get-it-down-and-fiddle-later
writing, it serves me well. I've used it so much for so long that I
don't even see the cruft when I'm engaged in writing.

It's interesting that a few tens of thousands of people use Obsidian
(their claim), which a few hundred million people use Word (their
claim). It can't all be bad.

I agree with Satis that frictionless means making it easy to quickly get things down. For me, the most frictionless app for capturing ideas is Freemind (on Windows). Even its fork Freeplane has more friction (although I couldn't pinpoint exactly why). Freemind has the perfect combination of keyboard shortcuts and responsiveness to be able to write things down at my speed of thought.

Another frictionless app (on mobile) is Logseq, which I use for journaling. Just open it and write at the bullet. I don't try to do lots of organising afterwards, although Logseq does have that power I haven't climbed the learning curve there yet. I previously used Simplenote in that way, but found its tag-only organisation of notes cumbersome and it lacks the features that are the second half of Steve's question.

At the other end of the spectrum: Notion. Great features, extremely slow and too many clicks to get anything down. So I use it sparingly for specific use cases only.

Then there is your familiarity with the application as a source of friction reduction. I tried out My Life Organized and found it very difficult to navigate. I'm used to InfoQube, and it's less friction for me because I know how to use InfoQube. That won't apply if your familiarity is the other way around.

Some friction can be eliminated with helper apps, like Keyboard Maestro or AutoHotkey. I don't mind an application benefitting from a little automation. KM is universally useful, so if an app needs the help, it's already in place.

Paul Korm makes a great point about familiarity begetting ease of use. I find it difficult to use algebraic input calculators. If I work your navigational calculations on an algebraic calculator your landing on the moon may be more of an E-ticket ride than respect for mortality demands. RPN, I fly and never make mistakes.

Well, of course I make mistakes. But with RPN I make them much more efficiently.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

But what exactly is friction? I guess it is anything that impedes the
smooth collection or writing of notes. Having to select a folder, or
decide on a tag, or lift fingers from the keyboard to format text or
anything like that.

I have reMarkable (1) and I will usually think of opening it just when someone is saying something worth noting. If I want to keep my note in context, I have to navigate through the folder structure, find the right location, create a notebook which involves typing the name by pressing the virtual keyboard keys with the stylus, confirm, and then begin notetaking. By that time, I've probably missed or forgotten what was said; at least I have the notebook ready for the next notes.

Alternatively, I can just open a nameless "Quick sheet", but I will then need to remember to move it to the right location once I'm finished, or I will never even remember that I have those notes.

That said, once the notebook is open, I find there is no 'friction' (in the sense used in this thread) at all in the actual writing.

But it might be more than that. It might be your
relationship to the interface.

Familiarity with the interface, as mentioned by others here is of course a key factor. I find Brainstorm absolutely frictionless but I've been using it around 20 years.

Is it uninspiring?

I think the inspiration itself is most useful when initially getting acquainted with the interface. If it inspires one, they are most likely to invest in learning it, up to the point of becoming familiar with it, especially with time savers such as keyboard shortcuts or mouse/stylus gestures.

Or confusing? Do you
have to stop and think about what to do next, once you've made your
note?

I think that in this regard, the importance of a powerful search function –so often emphasised by Bill / Madaboutdana– cannot be overestimated.

Anyway, I am interested in other recommendations for low-friction
note-management apps.

One programme I would call frictionless –at least in respect to note-taking; I've barely scratched its surface in coding, which is what it is intended for– is Sublime Text: fire it up (in less than a second) press ctrl+N to start a new file, and start typing. Don't worry about saving it; ST will keep it and open it next time you start the programme. If you try to close it, it will warn you that the content hasn't been saved and encourage you to do so.

I've met people who swear by Tex for presenting mathematical functions. I understand it took them quite some time to learn it, but now it's as frictionless as it could be for them.

Amontillado wrote:

Paul Korm makes a great point about familiarity begetting ease of use. I
find it difficult to use algebraic input calculators. If I work your
navigational calculations on an algebraic calculator your landing on the
moon may be more of an E-ticket ride than respect for mortality demands.
RPN, I fly and never make mistakes.

Well, of course I make mistakes. But with RPN I make them much more
efficiently.

For me, friction is the amount of time and effort spent on the app itself actually working with your content.

So that includes the interface, how easy the interface is (for me) to use and remember, and response time of the app. Having too many different info apps also increases friction, as I have to remember where I stored or wrote something, and remember too many commands or interfaces for various apps. Too many features can bog down an app and increase friction, too few features and I don't want to bother adding the app to my computer or phone.

So it's the sum total of a bunch of somewhat objective and completely subjective factors, which ultimately cause me to buy/commit to an app or decide it's not for me.

I switched to Obsidian for almost all of my PKM/outlining about a year ago and have never looked back, for me it's a jack of all trades, and also a master of many.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

But what exactly is friction? I guess it is anything that impedes the
smooth collection or writing of notes. Having to select a folder, or
decide on a tag, or lift fingers from the keyboard to format text or
anything like that. But it might be more than that. It might be your
relationship to the interface. Is it uninspiring? Or confusing? Do you
have to stop and think about what to do next, once you've made your
note?

I am thinking that Mem might be an example of a relatively frictionless
app, and yet, I find it uninspiring. That's probably just me.

Anyway, I am interested in other recommendations for low-friction
note-management apps.

Steve

Oops, I meant to say friction is the amount of time and effort spent on the app itself INSTEAD of actually directly working with your content.

steveylang wrote:

For me, friction is the amount of time and effort spent on the app
itself actually working with your content.

So that includes the interface, how easy the interface is (for me) to
use and remember, and response time of the app. Having too many
different info apps also increases friction, as I have to remember where
I stored or wrote something, and remember too many commands or
interfaces for various apps. Too many features can bog down an app and
increase friction, too few features and I don't want to bother adding
the app to my computer or phone.

So it's the sum total of a bunch of somewhat objective and completely
subjective factors, which ultimately cause me to buy/commit to an app or
decide it's not for me.

I switched to Obsidian for almost all of my PKM/outlining about a year
ago and have never looked back, for me it's a jack of all trades, and
also a master of many.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

>But what exactly is friction? I guess it is anything that impedes the
>smooth collection or writing of notes. Having to select a folder, or
>decide on a tag, or lift fingers from the keyboard to format text or
>anything like that. But it might be more than that. It might be your
>relationship to the interface. Is it uninspiring? Or confusing? Do you
>have to stop and think about what to do next, once you've made your
>note?
>
>I am thinking that Mem might be an example of a relatively frictionless
>app, and yet, I find it uninspiring. That's probably just me.
>
>Anyway, I am interested in other recommendations for low-friction
>note-management apps.
>
>Steve

steveylang wrote:

For me, friction is the amount of time and effort spent on the app
itself actually working with your content.

This is an excellent succinct reply. It accounts for how long it takes to do something in an app and also the mental effort it takes to replicated the action.

Here is how the developer of Reflect describes a frictionless note-taking experience:


"Your notes should flow from you to the page with the least amount of friction possible.

"Writing is not the outcome of thinking, it's the place where thinking takes place. Only once your thoughts are out of your head can you begin to make sense of them. Any kind of friction disrupts this process.

"This principle has many knock-on effects. Not only does whatever tool you're using to take notes need to be as fast as possible, but it must never force you to make decisions when entering notes.

"For example, having to make decisions like "where in this hierarchy do I put this note?", or "is this tool secure enough that I can write down this extremely sensitive thing?" cripples frictionless note-taking. Concepts like folders and files often force a structure on our notes that works against our ability to get our thoughts out."


I think this is true as far as it goes, but I also think what is friction for one person, might be organizational thinking to another. For example, I can't use Notion because it requires so much set up and preparation, but for others the very process of creating their Notion setup helps to clarify their thinking.

And for what it is worth, I am finding the process of keeping my daily notes in Reflect to be as frictionless an experience as I've encountered.

Steve

I kept hearing myself saying "yes, yes, and yes" while reading the quoted description below, and feeling hopeful after your own testimonial.

But of course it turns out to be a Mac-ecosystem only product :( Bummer.

I am not surprised; that ecosystem is clearly well-targeted to people in creative professions. Most people I know that have Macs and the like say that they "don't get in the way", which is a good part of what I would say 'frictionless' stands for.

I think it is reasonable that such an ecosystem attracts developers that think in the same direction.

Is anyone aware of programmes similar to Reflect for Windows and/or Linux?



Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Here is how the developer of Reflect describes a frictionless note-taking experience:

Alexander,

I use Reflect's browser version on my Windows machine at work and it is fine. And while they focus on the Mac-verse, they actually don't support the Apple Calendar, but they do work with Google Calendar and Contacts. The iOS version is still in beta and I haven't used it yet. I would expect Reflect to work on an Android app, but they are a small operation (I think four people), so it might be a while. Anyway, I guess I'm saying don't give up just yet!

Steve

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

I kept hearing myself saying "yes, yes, and yes" while reading the
quoted description below, and feeling hopeful after your own
testimonial.

But of course it turns out to be a Mac-ecosystem only product :( Bummer.

I am not surprised; that ecosystem is clearly well-targeted to people in
creative professions. Most people I know that have Macs and the like say
that they "don't get in the way", which is a good part of what I would
say 'frictionless' stands for.

I think it is reasonable that such an ecosystem attracts developers that
think in the same direction.

Is anyone aware of programmes similar to Reflect for Windows and/or
Linux?



Stephen Zeoli wrote:
>Here is how the developer of Reflect describes a frictionless
note-taking experience:

Thanks for the encouragement. I didn't realise that I could go ahead through the web app alone. I have just registered.

I need offline access for my mission-critical information but I will indeed try Reflect for other uses. From a first look, it appears well thought out.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Alexander,

I use Reflect's browser version on my Windows machine at work and it is
fine.

Reflect is supposed to work offline and then sync when you're reconnected. I don't know how it does this and whether or not it is truly reliable. And it may be that this only works in the native Mac app and not through the browser.

The app does also boast end-to-end encryption, if that matters to you.


Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

Thanks for the encouragement. I didn't realise that I could go ahead
through the web app alone. I have just registered.

I need offline access for my mission-critical information but I will
indeed try Reflect for other uses. From a first look, it appears well
thought out.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:
>Alexander,
>
>I use Reflect's browser version on my Windows machine at work and it is
>fine.

Depends on how one "thinks". I mull over in my head complicated or confusing concepts or themes I am supposed to be writing about, often for weeks or months, trying to get a feeling for their geometry and texture, without words, sometimes with dreams, before writing. In fact, putting down words can prematurely stop the process and make continuing with thinking through a problem more difficult. Writing itself is friction and can force the brain to halt and abandon serendipity and the other pleasures of thinking.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Here is how the developer of Reflect describes a frictionless
"Writing is not the outcome of thinking, it's the place where thinking
takes place. Only once your thoughts are out of your head can you begin
to make sense of them. Any kind of friction disrupts this process.

It's difficult, isn't it. I jot bits and pieces of writing ideas down in a plethora of apps, then try to reunite them in Ulysses. But this doesn't always work, and isn't always helpful.

I've started to experiment with a very interesting writing app, Lattics (https://lattics.zineapi.com which uses a kind of "cards alongside articles" approach, but with extra goodies like a mindmap-alike view. It's this mix of rapid note jotting and long-form article writing that appeals to me – you can, of course, do such things in any number of other apps, but Lattics has what it describes as a "workbench" approach that's particularly appealing. As is the auto-templated layout and handling of references (a very convenient way to produce academic papers, if one feels so inclined). Lattics also does the Ulysses thing of combining multiple notes in a single scrolling view.

Having said which, I still tend to jot down quick ideas etc. in Obsidian, which is multi-platform, or UpNote (ditto).

Paul Korm wrote:

Depends on how one "thinks". I mull over in my head complicated or
confusing concepts or themes I am supposed to be writing about, often
for weeks or months, trying to get a feeling for their geometry and
texture, without words, sometimes with dreams, before writing. In
fact, putting down words can prematurely stop the process and make
continuing with thinking through a problem more difficult. Writing
itself is friction and can force the brain to halt and abandon
serendipity and the other pleasures of thinking.

Interesting thought.

A famous German writer, Heinrich Kleist (18th century), wrote an essay called "Über die allmähliche Verfertigung der Gedanken beim Reden“ (= "on the gradual fabrication of thoughts while talking"). For me, in fact, it's the fabrication of thoughts while _writing_. I guess that is how many of us here "think" and consolidate thoughts.

However, Paul's statement "putting down words can prematurely stop the process and make continuing with thinking through a problem more difficult" gets me thinking (sorry for the pun). Maybe, my habit of writing down thoughts as a means of getting them clearer, keeps me from coming up with ideas that go beyond my current horizon.

Thanks for the food for thought.

Now this is a fascinating point: I find I can often come up with highly sophisticated ideas while talking (to myself or others), which are often then quite/really difficult to reformulate or sum up in writing.

This also applies to ideation in other languages: one way to stimulate new ideas or gain new perspectives on old ideas is to formulate them in another language (you and Paul must be intimately familiar with this), or even a couple of other languages. The way you approach ideation in e.g. German is fundamentally different, I would suggest, from the equivalent approach in English (indeed, the difference in the linguistic structuring of ideas is something I once considered writing a thesis about); of course you need near-mother-tongue fluency in multiple languages to be able to benefit to a significant degree from the varying cognitive frameworks involved. I regularly discuss tricky ideas in French or German (often with myself!) to benefit from the cognitive "hit" involved in reformulating them coherently in another language, although I don't claim mother-tongue fluency in either language.

The same applies to writing in other languages, of course, although it's perhaps too easy to become caught up in the nitty-gritty detail (which tends to happen to translators) and lose sight of the overarching conceptual differences. A couple of beers (or glasses of the wine/spirit of your choice) can help, of course... some scientists – including eminent ones – swear by other forms of recreational stimulus!

Cheers,
Bill

Franz Grieser wrote:

Paul Korm wrote:
>Depends on how one "thinks". I mull over in my head complicated or
>confusing concepts or themes I am supposed to be writing about, often
>for weeks or months, trying to get a feeling for their geometry and
>texture, without words, sometimes with dreams, before writing. In
>fact, putting down words can prematurely stop the process and make
>continuing with thinking through a problem more difficult. Writing
>itself is friction and can force the brain to halt and abandon
>serendipity and the other pleasures of thinking.

Interesting thought.

A famous German writer, Heinrich Kleist (18th century), wrote an essay
called "Über die allmähliche Verfertigung der Gedanken beim
Reden“ (= "on the gradual fabrication of thoughts while talking").
For me, in fact, it's the fabrication of thoughts while _writing_. I
guess that is how many of us here "think" and consolidate thoughts.

However, Paul's statement "putting down words can prematurely stop the
process and make continuing with thinking through a problem more
difficult" gets me thinking (sorry for the pun). Maybe, my habit of
writing down thoughts as a means of getting them clearer, keeps me from
coming up with ideas that go beyond my current horizon.

Thanks for the food for thought.

A related issue, the quickest way I can kill a story idea is to tell someone what I'm thinking about writing.

It's axiomatic. All tentative story ideas - mine, anyway - sound dumb. The good ones and the stinkers alike.

That may say more about my skills than axioms.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Now this is a fascinating point: I find I can often come up with highly
sophisticated ideas while talking (to myself or others), which are often
then quite/really difficult to reformulate or sum up in writing.

Amontillado wrote:

A related issue, the quickest way I can kill a story idea is to tell
someone what I'm thinking about writing.

LOL. Same here.