I'm very much looking forward to exploring this. Among other things, Curio now has a query language which will, if I understand correctly, build collections of links as mind maps or Kanban-style stacks.

Curio is something I've always come back to, particularly as a math notebook. Math-wise, and arguably in general, I'm an idiot. But I'm an inquisitive idiot. Curio is the best math whiteboard app I have. Devonthink (markdown with MathJax) is better for export, Curio is better for musing.

This week I have a documentation project to finish, which is to say I need to start it, pronto. I think I'll develop it in Curio.

The release notes for Curio 25

https://www.zengobi.com/curio/releasenotes/?v=25

The Smart Collection feature is very clever. If I have a Curio project with lots of idea spaces (i.e., canvases), and several of them mention my perpetual motion invention, then I can create a list on a canvas and assign a simple query to it such as "perpetual motion". Curio creates a list of all the instances where I discussed my invention, grouped by idea space. Then I can use that list as a sort of virtual table of contents to navigate to the instance I want to look at. Later, if I add text somewhere with that discusses perpetual motion further, that reference is automatically added to the list I created.

Of course, the queries behind a list can be complex -- see https://www.zengobi.com/curio/docs/25/search/#query-terms

Interesting. I keep being tempted to return to Curio, then backing off again.

But having been rather disappointed by Agenda's latest update (yes, it does now do multiple windows, but hey), I might give Curio yet another look...

Cheers!
Bill

I've got about a month of premium-unlock left on my year's Agenda subscription, and at this point I doubt I'll resubscribe (unless StackSocial or someone offers a good discount). I find Agenda can be a good replacement for some things I do but it would just mean moving to it from another specialized app, which is a wash.

It has improved a lot, but it has SO much competition that I'm not sure it's an app I want to pour my files and depend on for the medium-term.

I totally agree – with competitors like Obsidian around (including appropriate calendar plugins!) or indeed Craft (to which I already subscribe), not to mention NotePlan (although the latter's pricing has made it quite unsuitable for me), I honestly don't think Agenda brings enough real novelty to the table. Also, in practical use the aesthetic, while at first sight elegant, starts to get on my nerves... ;-)

Use cases make all the difference. I prefer mind mapping in Curio over MindNode, for example. Curio is more flexible in linking and I can put other forms of notes side-by-side with a mind map. The folding buttons in Curio mind maps are nice, too. If I uninstalled MindNode, life would go on.

On first glance, Curio lacks a critical feature. For instance, there is no mind node note attachment - because, since everything in Curio has a note attachment, there's no specific need for mind map notes. The same notes popup that works for any other entity in Curio works for mind map nodes.

Curio has more friction for note taking than, say, Obsidian, although the gap has narrowed.

The Welcome to Curio document, written with Curio, looks like overwhelming work. In practice, it takes almost no effort to produce documents with that level of polish.

Even when notes are just for me that degree of finesse helps keep my enthusiasm up.

Obsidian is trivially future proof. Devonthink is only slightly less future proof.

I'm pretty sure I could get all my text notes out of Curio's XML without using Curio. That's my standard for future proofing, but I wouldn't do that unless there wasn't an alternative. Exporting a project to Markdown preserves what matters. I can't remember ever losing data in Curio, but exporting to Markdown probably isn't a bad idea as part of backup.

For planning creative work, I think I've returned to Curio. It is top notch for math notebooks. It's not for everything, and probably not for everybody.

You can't have my Linux and Windows (yecch!) Obsidian vaults and my Mac Devonthink databases until you pry my cold dead hands from the keyboard. On the other hand, Curio is working well for me.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Interesting. I keep being tempted to return to Curio, then backing off
again.

But having been rather disappointed by Agenda's latest update (yes, it
does now do multiple windows, but hey), I might give Curio yet another
look...

Cheers!
Bill

MadaboutDana wrote:

with competitors like.... not to mention NotePlan (although the latter's
pricing has made it quite unsuitable for me)

NotePlan is what Agenda reminds me most of, at least given how I had been using the older NotePlan v.1.

Given that Agenda gives you a permanent unlock for all features offered within one's $35/yr subscription period it's a much better deal than NotePlan, which is a shame because I liked NotePlan a lot before v.2 introduced its $99/yr subscription.

It seems as if Obsidian is the reigning bang-for-the-buck option and its ecosystem of free plugins (and its attendant geekiness in customization) has attracted the cross-platform productivity crowd that previously dabbled in a passel of other products that had brief moments in the sun. I just wish I liked it more.

Amontillado wrote:

Use cases make all the difference. I prefer mind mapping in Curio over
MindNode, for example.

Although Curio's implementation seems quite nice it's fighting against cross-platform apps. I use MindNode 50% of the time on an iPad, and once you've used the Apple Pencil to select nodes and convert handwriting (not to mention dragging nodes, and making rubber band multi-selections) you don't want to give it up.

You are quite right. That's a blind spot I have. For reasons of obstinance I don't use cloud sync, and my mobile writing is all on a Macbook.

I tend not to notice if an app has a mobile version, so my advice is somewhat out of step with the mainstream.

satis wrote:

Although Curio's implementation seems quite nice it's fighting against
cross-platform apps. I use MindNode 50% of the time on an iPad, and once
you've used the Apple Pencil to select nodes and convert handwriting
(not to mention dragging nodes, and making rubber band multi-selections)
you don't want to give it up.

$99.99 PA for NotePlan !?!?

I've given NotePlan a try every few months since it first arrived in beta several years ago. The developer is a very nice person. However, using NotePlan always seems like a penalty for some minor misdemeanor. Agenda does too, but less so. At least Agenda is pretty. I think it's a problem with the paradigm for these apps. As soon as notes become attached to tasks and calendars and reminders, motion sickness starts. It's the friction.

I've never thought of Curio as note-taking software. It's a different creature.

Maybe someday software will include little AI djinns that will pop open polite messages such as "Excuse me, you're using the wrong software for what you're doing. May I suggest other options for you?"

Yes, he's lovely – and he's priced NotePlan at a level that can only appeal to NotePlan enthusiasts. It's a shame, I used to use it a great deal, but I now use Obsidian instead (plus TickTick for multi-user project management).

I very much like Obsidian's stripped-down aesthetic, but I suspect it works better on Mac than on PC because the standard system font on Mac is so attractive. Actually, I've just found I can change Agenda's font to use the standard San Francisco font, too, so I'm taking another look at Agenda ;-)

I love your idea of software djinns!

Friction for me is at least partially aesthetic. If I enjoy working in an app, it's because lots of little cues and details make me feel happy. In this sense, while I admire TickTick and regard it as one of the most frictionless task management apps (especially given its plethora of features), I don't enormously enjoy working in it. I can work very fast in TickTick, but its aesthetic doesn't thrill me.

On the other hand, while I do need to think harder about working in Obsidian, I very much enjoy doing so. Just as I enjoy working in Bike – because it's attractive, has some beautifully executed features (notably linking), and is fast and easy to use.

Obsidian's great advantage is that it's fundamentally a text-based platform (also NotePlan's great advantage). This means that you can experiment in all kinds of amusing ways (when you've got time to do so) without doing permanent damage to complex internal structures or software formats. I've installed and – sometimes almost immediately! – uninstalled many different plug-ins, and gradually honed down my selection to ones that really work for me. And in the process, haven't lost or damaged any of the underlying data, even though I've now imported my enormous NotePlan repository into Obsidian (and regretfully abandoned NotePlan).

Friction, as others have already remarked, is much more than just "ease of use". It's why so many of our clients have taken to describing their software and processes as "intuitive" – a usefully vague word that covers the emotional/haptic response to software as much as it does the structural/logical aspects.

It's why Curio is cool – complex, vast range of features, but gorgeous and enjoyable to use.

Paul Korm wrote:

$99.99 PA for NotePlan !?!?

I've given NotePlan a try every few months since it first arrived in
beta several years ago. The developer is a very nice person.
However, using NotePlan always seems like a penalty for some minor
misdemeanor. Agenda does too, but less so. At least Agenda is pretty.
I think it's a problem with the paradigm for these apps. As soon as
notes become attached to tasks and calendars and reminders, motion
sickness starts. It's the friction.

I've never thought of Curio as note-taking software. It's a different
creature.

Maybe someday software will include little AI djinns that will pop open
polite messages such as "Excuse me, you're using the wrong software for
what you're doing. May I suggest other options for you?"

satis wrote:

Given that Agenda gives you a permanent unlock for all features offered
within one's $35/yr subscription period it's a much better deal than
NotePlan, which is a shame because I liked NotePlan a lot before v.2
introduced its $99/yr subscription.

Follow-up: Agenda just simplified its tiers, adding to its preexisting yearly Pro subscription a one-time forever purchase price of $119.99. This makes it a deal not only for those who would use the app for at least three years, but makes it a screaming bargain compared to NotePlan, ClickUp and the like

Looping back on Curio, I've discovered an interesting workflow.

I like the idea of notes flying in close formation. If I make a note about a magic lantern in chapter 1, I want another instance of that note anywhere else the magic lantern plays a role.

Standard disclaimer applies. I'm a wanna-be novelist spending all my writing time on documentation for work, and I don't write full time.

In Curio, I can have a corkboard (an Idea Space) for magic houseware where I can put notes about the magic lantern.

I can tag the magic lantern with Chapter 1, Chapter 8, etc.

I can create Idea Spaces for Chapters 1 and 8, and put queries there to list everything with the appropriate chapter tags.

Cool, but I don't get to control the order or layout in those query results, much as in Obsidian's Dataview. There's an interesting thing available, though.

Everything the query found is represented as a synced instance. When you create another instance off a synced instance, there is no chain of dependency. The third instance is tied to the original, not the secondary instance. It's like replicating a replicant in Devonthink.

So, the list can be like a menu of things with a given tag. I can copy elements as synced instances into individual notes or nodes in a mind map.

That kind of clutters things up, but there's a solution.

Curio supports layers. I can put the automatically generated list on one layer and sync copies from it to a second layer. Turn off the layer with the query list, and I've just got my mind map, or constellation of note cards, or whatever. Turn the query layer back on, there's my menu of ideas.

Fun stuff.