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UltraRecall
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Posted by Daly de Gagne
Mar 8, 2023 at 03:42 PM
Many years ago I used UltraRecall. Recent discussion here makes me wonder whether again UR might have a place in my workflow. Many programs have come and gone over the years, and I wonder about UR’s future trajectory. I sense its pace of development has slowed down; perhaps that’s simply because it is a mature program, and the developers don’t want to add new features just for the sake of doing so.
I wonder what others think? I must admit I am leary of recommitting to a program which may not contain to be developed.
Daly
Posted by Andy Brice
Mar 8, 2023 at 04:53 PM
I think there is an important difference between not having new features added and not being maintained. As a vendor you run into diminishing returns adding new features into a mature product and it may not be worth the extra effort, bugs and support. But an unmaintained product could break next time a new OS version comes out (particularly on an Apple OS!).
Posted by Andy Brice
Mar 8, 2023 at 04:53 PM
BTW I have idea which of those 2 applies to UltraRecall.
Posted by 22111
Mar 8, 2023 at 05:29 PM
This forum’s contributors are free to create new threads as they like, but obviously, Gagne’s (oh, sorry, he’s of nobility: he’s worth more than just plebs!) new-thread here, just about 5 hours after, obviously, having seen mine: https://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/10049/0/some-words-about-ultrarecall-etc-vs-search-tools-meow perhaps makes readers (who are free to make their own conclusions) will make think again about core info vs. just propaganda of some. That being said:
Just-Gagne (oops! I did it again! well: we’re in Modern Times now, ain’t we, and with “equality between any-n-everything” an’all that? hahaha!) is right in his implicit allegation that UR is a “traditional” outliner: no “web” and those things - but from my experience with what they call “heavy duty”, UR’s the most sturdy of those; your mileage may differ…
And yes, before UR’s first-day-on-bits this time, 450 bitsers or so “wanted that offer”, according to what I read there, so it’s obvious that my (kindly worded) “update by bits” comment’s “observation (well: call it allegation then…) over there plays a role in current sales: 500 times just 20 bucks is 10k, yeah, and that’s been perhaps 80 p.c. in “updates” i.e. upgrades, but TheBrain do that better for their business interests, selling any upgrade - and their upgrades come 2 or 3 times as frequent as UR’s ones - the original (or then “full version”) asking price to anybody not complying to their subscription…
And then, Daly’s (correct) observation that UR’s development speed isn’t as fast as TB’s, e.g., cannot be denied, but then, UR NEVER TOOK AWAY current functionality from what had been already there, whilst TB exactly did that, proof on file if ever needed.
So, let’s remain honest: Interplay between users and developers DO play a role in the latter’s motivation to speed up their development, or then not…
And yes, Gagne is right again by saying (or implicating) that UR’s developer’s often unwilling to introduce new features he doesn’t deem “necessary” - “best” example here: no introduction of an intermediate (i.e. “third”) pane, relegating the current “tree” (which he calls the “Data Explorer”) to just a “project” depository, as I had wished for years ago.
But again, let’s re-become honest here: We all know that very same unwillingness to do coding work they don’t see the necessity of, from any other developer we rely on in adapting our workflow to “what we got”, necessarily, and here again, much-beloved Devonthink (Mac) even has DONE AWAY with that intermediate, third, pane, quite recently, and again, Kyle, UR’s developer, has at least NEVER EVER TAKEN AWAY ANY functionality that had been already there.
Thus, Kyle is RELIABLE, and obviously “reactive” at least for “those little things” (AND for any bug I, or any other UR user, might discover, but then, it seems that 80 or 90 p.c. of the time, it’s just me who discovers them: any questions then about the “quality” of “involvement”, “engagement”... real “NEEDS” then, of my UR co-users???)...
whilst - proof on file - at least DevonThink’s and TheBrain’s developers are not, and re “software power” or what you might call it, e.g. RightNote is a joke, by direct comparison.
And so on. Fact is, SQLite as a a db backend isn’t “ideal”, oh no… but at least it’s sturdy within its physical i.e. practical limits, and its data is more or less “available” by standard SQL front-ends, in case of (user-caused) “troubles”, so then at least “repair” then is easy.
For example, J.P. Miller, in his very recommendable blog, said, already years ago (I cite from memory), upon UR that with its extremely fine-grained individualization capabilities, and if you didn’t pay attention, you could get in some real metadata mess, with UR - and, you might have read about my problems in the UR forum very recently, I got into such troubles, by my own fault, AND because in his original remark, Miller did NOT get into any explanations, and so had me fall into the very trap he had seen in time.
But then, now, after some analysis, and with doing some work within a (paid or free, whatever: paid in my case whilst free alternatives abound and would have been perfectly as helpful!) SQLite front-end, I was able to correct it all, and everything works fine again.
And, remember: These had been problems caused by extremely fine-grained UR individualization facilities, NOT even provided by “competitors”, AND my not having being aware of their implications when used frivolously.
No, Mr. Gagne: Let’s be honest, and it had been Mr. Brice indeed who (on bits) had said (again my words),
“Buy the very current state of my software, don’t let any wishful thinking for future developments play within your purchase decision, in order to not deceive yourself… and in order for me to be free to do what I desire to do or not do, development-wise”.
Again, that was the pack’s here beloved Mr. Brice, proof on file, whenever anybody here wants.
Thus, Mr. Gagne: Judge UR, as any other software, by what-it-is - it’s Mr. Brice who tells you.
Then compare. And I think that current UR 6.2.0.x or whatever it is, not only is worth your 39$, but also your possibly needed efforts of importing from some (far?) lesser software, and of getting acquainted with its (current) intricacies.
Just yesterday, I read some simili-“review” for TheBrain, https://www.seriousinsights.net/review-thebrain-10/ , and which falsely alleges you need TB, in order to get transclusion; it’s almost the “quality” of most - paid-for, or rather to-BE-paid-for (by the purchase link then) “reviews” of “Scrivener”, but then, its author at least is perfectly honest in his disclaimer, and thus stands out from 99.5 p.c. of so-called “reviews” in today’s web: by saying,
“Currently, TheBrain provided a single user professional license to facilitate this review. Serious Insights has also previously been retained by TheBrain as an analyst firm.”... which says that big money had changed hands before indeed…
(Whilst on the other hand, even “serious” sources now come up with “millions of tax payers’ bucks flooded to venal so-called “journalists”” - again, my words, but for the “official”, proven facts -, and in some occurrences even about 7k for 1 day’s “work” - if ever some critic (new-speak: “some right-extremist”, ho-ho!) called many “journalists” - and not all of them, of course - “governments’ writing-whores” or something like that, well:
those critics-“right-extremists”, as they are called now, could now, on their turn, tell you:
“proof on file”.
Get honest, folks. (If you remember what honesty meant that is.)
Posted by 22111
Mar 8, 2023 at 05:51 PM
(And InfoSelect’s developer is not reliable either, according to the criterion I set up supra, i.e. at least not taking AWAY existing functionality; and I had not only not explained the missing link above, but not even copied it, sorry: https://www.telepolis.de/features/Zahlt-es-sich-aus-Neues-zu-Journalismus-und-Staatsknete-7538635.html - and that’s heise, i.e. c’t, and all, and nobody could call’em “right-extremists” then. Btw, I think that in North Korea, regime critics have been called “right-extremists” all the time… but you’re right, here in the West, “we”... well: they, in fact… haven’t re-opened the camps yet, so let’s all be happy and enjoy…)
As for “diminishing returns”: Yeah, some (not: single) developers try to counter that effect (TB), but then… even TB developers / marketers had had the good idea to seriously cripple, yes, their “free version”, but then, just so that TB prospects, continuing to use TB, in some “extended trial”, beyond the “switch to free”, were then seriously hampered in their “comfort”, but could CONTINUE to use TB in some, some limited indeed, way, and thus, TB retained a real, positive, actual chance to sell their product to those “sceptics”, as I would call’em.
Today’s “TB free”, on the other hand, is just a slap in the face of any prospect who didn’t decide “on/in time”, and its so-called “conversion rate” should zero in on zero sells / rents, I suppose.
Thus even the TB guys should be far from being as smart as they think they are.