Best of Both Worlds, Twice - I think this was the missing element to a perfect system: The "one db, one tree" nexus is dead.

Posted by 22111
Feb 12, 2014 at 04:43 PM

PP, “The previous post doesn’t mention the term of recursion anymore, all the less so why it should/could be desirable”, technically, you are right, please replace “mention” by “discuss”, since that’s what I wanted to express, “mention, discussion-wise”; technically, you just LISTED AGAIN the FEATURE, (having listed the feature before), but without adding anything to that listing-the-feature - but I acknowledge that my line blurs the possible discrimination with the latter part of it.

Fact is, your non-avoidance of recursion creates conceptual and “mind” chaos, and you don’t see the prob, which is a viable choice of yours, but it’s a choice; even a sheet of paper does, by its physical aspect, do some “restrain” (and unfortunately too much restrain) on your thinking, and whilst I try to implement some sort of “constructive restrain” (cf. with “ideal”, but non-constructive 3-dimensional “concept maps” and their NIL practical value for working on real-life probs, at least in their current shape), you chose the non-restrained way, as these maps: I acknowledge that choice, but I don’t try to follow it, for the above-mentioned aspect of trying to be more constructive than that (and bearing the limitations of “regular people” ‘s (to who I belong, IQ-wise) functioning-of-thinking, in mind).

Tom, thank you very much for your trying to be constructive, and please forgive me for not being able to discern, at any moment, where you address PP, and where you address me (it starts here, “and the only thing that may actually come close is your software (InfoQube). - I can tell you understand a lot of concepts that other software is lacking. I don’t want to discourage you at all, because I know that you’ve spent a lot of personal time on this. I’m very thankful for your contributions!!!”, and then goes on this thrive. If, by chance, you ONLY addressed PP, without addressing me, I kindly ask forgivance for my preposterousness, but then, there’s this “but without a functional product” part which seems to address me?).

Also, I’ve got real comprehension probs with what you try to describe re what you would consider perfect sw for your means and tasks.

Would you please be so kind as to further develop, give details, give some examples how “your perfect sw” would present data? I’d be perfectly willing to consider, rethink, once I understood what you’re aiming at (and thus understood where it differed from my previous concepts); as I said before, I KNOW perfectly well that both the outlining concept and the Miller Columns concept (which are quite similar, identical even in their underlying structure) will NOT be useful “deeper down” along the indentation level (that’s why I cut the structure up “in the middle”, as detailed in this forum, and from my real-experience, I can say that’s an incredible relief!),

let alone the prob “how to use alternatively-regrouped sub-groups in different contexts”, so I’m totally open to any possible tagging concept overlaying the original tree structure (of which I detailed the superiority here, but as the BASE structure only, and I’m even willing to reconsider that paradigm whenever I* find something equal / more practical / more “complete” (i.e. not having to overlay OTHER structures over a tree structure whilst preserving the ADVANTAGES of a basic tree structure (but not necessarily the tree structure itself).

* = “I” meaning “with the help of my friends”, in case, i.e. in some constructive discussion where I’m more than willing to accept (and to acknowledge as being not mine) contributions from other thinkers, let alone THEIR possible “complete new ideas”, where I just then could say, well, that’s the perfect solution! (And not only in cases where Wikipedia “proves me to have been second” as with those Miller Columns.)

Btw, this sort of PUBLIC disscusion really assures, to any possible contributor of new ideas, that his respective “copyright” (or copyright, without any quotes, after all) will be strictly preserved, the advantage over patents being that possible solutions will possible come from various developers (cf. the pauperization of sw development, for now something about 30 years, for MS “owning too much”).

Thus, again, Tom, please be so kind as do develop what you’re after, further.

As for FreeMind, I had been pointed to its cloning feature, then checked it, but it’s awful; it’s intra-file: Some sw house with real, big money (MJ and some 2, 3 others in that sub market) should FINALLY look into creating INTER-file mm clones (which technically are perfectly possible, I wrote on this in the Ultra Recall forum, among others). And of course, let’s not mix up cloning / referencing with recursion, but this being said, I’m not here to reveal possible argumentative haziness, but in order to trigger many more good ideas, in common effort, than I’d be able to stumble upon, all alone.

PP, “Another example is any good old web page. It may link to sub-pages, and these will typically link back to the main page. A nice convenience and something we don’t even think about. The same can be done in IQ.” ( in http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=35633.25 ). Now, as a prof developper, you should not mix up references with recursion, right? (And yes, if sometimes, technically, they have the same origins, we should look after them being perfectly distinct, even from the technical pov, in order for the lack of distinction not becoming a trap then.) But since you maintain the non-distinction, please allow for my falling back into that “family parable”: Yes, having sex with your ancestors might be a “nice convenience”, and most three-years-olds would happily enter into it… it’s just some time later that big, big probs will present, from such blatant misbehavior on the part of their creator(s) (be it pop or mom) (and to further remain within that pic: the child is OUT of the womb, you see, no (acceptable) means to re-insert even “parts” of it into there (or the other way round - I’m very sorry for the (unintended obscenity here, but IM recursion is obscene)...) So we have to look out for something less destructive (“then intra-family sex”), and without barring the (highly desired) intra-family intimacy. Enough said. To regain the IM world, it’s all about “making anything desirable possible, but without creating chaos in your head - just as in the family setting. Your mileage might differ… ;-)

As said, I know outlining is not enough; but it’s the best home base, from my experience, we’ve got at to this point. Thus, we need something really good in order to replace it, or then, lesser but more problable alternative, we’d have to invent something to overlay that base structure: We’re in need of a real smart tagging component, and that’s why we first have to identify what our ideal (= optimized in their realization / “work flow”) tasks will be.

And Tom, you ain’t wrong in your perception, from my dispersed writings, it all appears (too) complicated, currently, but I once said, in order to present sw as very easy, streamlined, “perfect”, to users, it’s a whole lotta piece of programming that’s needed behind the scenes. My writing just blur that distinction, but I’m after the purest, simplest sw on earth, from the users’ perspective, promised.