We talk about a lot of different outliners/info managers on this list. Seems like most of us are working with several options to get "the perfect" solution. I am wondering, though, which programs truly rise to the top, so I am proposing that we each answer this question: if you could only have one outliner/info manager, which one would you choose. To get things going, here is my answer:

I would choose Zoot. Yes, it has some severe limitations, primarily its lack of RTF formatting of any kind in the notes. However, its brilliant data manipulation, its ease of collecting and finding textual information, and its ability to add multiple mega-data items to each note makes Zoot a very powerful and very versatile program. While I currently don't use this feature much, Zoot does provide linking to external files, so RTF can be handled by linking to Word documents when necessary. Also, the developer is extremely available and responsive to customer suggestions, which is not always the case.

What is your choice?

Steve Z.

Steve, that's a tough question man.

If I was cut down to one I would use ADM 3 because it lets me outline, easily capture stuff from the web, use key words, use columns, and every indication is it will get better and better in each of those areas.

A lof of what I used to do in Ariadne I now do in ADM because ADM allows me to have separate files that can be opened and closed easily by using tabs. Ariadne only allows one instance of the program to be working, and essentially has only one file, so an outline can get pretty big; Ariadne has a provision for what it calls privacy files that could resolve that problem, but I have found that in closing those files I have sometimes lost their contents.

Much of the information I used to store in ADM I now keep in MDE InfoHandler, whose sophistication around categories and groups stands alone. InfoHandler makes it a joy to store and retrieve articles and quotations because it is so easy to use the categories and groups. When I began to use InfoHandler I found that its learning curve was much easier than I had assumed.

Daly

I guess it would be ADM3, because it does it all. From what I've heard, if GrandView were available for Windows, or maybe even if I knew DOS, that would be the pick. (Are there any products besides software where retrogressions are almost as prominent as progressions?)

There are paradoxes to the question your raise, in that my choice when I'm limited to a single program might not even get included in the optimal set. I suppose the question that avoids paradox would be pretty awkward to state, something like the program within your optimal set with the greatest marginal utility.

The main problem with the question--It isn't my intent to discourage answer, btw--is that it begs what may be the biggest issue besetting the user, whether he _should_ try to find a single knowledge management program that does it all. ADM 3 VERSUS BrainStorm PLUS Idea! Personal PLUS MS OneNote PLUS LonelyNotes, my present choice for optimal set. This may change when and if ADM3 gets an unlimited undo function pertaining to the hierarchy and the ability to hoist any arbitrary set of topics.

Steve - The best time of my software life was around 1990, when GrandView was ascendant and Tornado Notes - the DOS daddy of InfoSelect- was clearly the best notetaker around.

JP

I would choose Brainstorm. Its (objective) competitive advantages:
(1) awesome structural versatility (2) Magic Paste to easily gather info, intelligently stripping it down to plain text as single paragraphs, if required (3) automatically finds clones ("Namesakes") in info already entered (4) automatically creates structure as one enters info through focused operation (5) powerful and intuitive re-organising features (6) fast and easy on PC memory (7) unlimited undo, even on structural changes (8) licensed by user, not by PC... the list goes on.

I admit that my choice is also based on (subjective) personal criteria: (1) I keep switching from right to left brain tasks and vice versa, i.e. jotting down ideas and reorganising (2) I love the simple user interface that doesn't get in the way (3) I am grateful for its keyboard-only based operation when I'm writing (4) I like to buy European products...

What Brainstorm doesn't have, i.e. collapsable overview and RTF, can easily be provided by the regular office suites. Its exporting capability is getting better all the time, as is a lot more, thanks to a very responsive programming team.

I am something of a beginner in this field compared to most others who post here. But I have been experimenting feverishly in recent weeks with many of the info managers discussed here.

And the more I play, the more I realise that Steve Z is right when he empasises the importance of the ease with which a progam can collect data.

Beyond this factor, it's more difficult to pick among the different contenders. But for collecting data, Zoot stands head and shoulders above the rest (so far - the only likely competitor I haven't tried is ADM, which seems on paper to rival Zoot in this department). I'd buy Zoot in a flash if it did RTF and notes bigger than 32k. As it is, I'm still undecided about whether I can live with its limitations.

My big surprise so far? That despite all my built-in prejudices, I liked OneNote enough to buy it. In its SP1 form, it's a robust, adaptable program that's ideal for short-term management of data, where you're just bundling stuff together for small projects, whether personal or for work. One of Microsoft's finest achievements, and obviously has the potential to improve. Certainly not a long-term home for data, though.

JohnK

Hi Steve.

For me a single piece of software wouldn´t do. Data management and outlining are 2 completely separate applications: One means collecting (and organizing - I don´t need an outliner for that), the second is part of the writing process.

I use 3 tools for these processes:

* Info Select for storing and organizing pieces of information
* Notemap for outlining non-fiction book and other larger projects (for articles the outlining capabilities in MS Word usually suffice)
* Storylines for outlining fiction projects. Storylines (from www.writerscafe.co.uk) lets you break a story down into scenes which you put on index cards. The big difference to similar tools such as ndxCards or LonelyNotes is that you can arrange several storylines in parallel (that is useful when you write a novel from several points of view or mix several stories) and still not lose control over each storyline. Storylines is part of a more comprehensive set of writer´s tools, which I, however, don´t use.

Franz

[[So I'm always facing a compromise between what I'd like to use and what I have to work with. Apps that talk to each other are essential for my work environment, but probably irrelevant to others.]]

Jack, I think you'll find this is increasingly important to many people. Those of us who work in an office environment often have various bits of software foisted upon us (though rarely anything interesting such as a decent info manager!), so if we add anything ourselves, it has to integrate.

Recently, spurred on by Daly's praise for Infohandler, I've been having a second look at it. One of the things that I like about it is dragging and dropping emails from Outlook/Outlook Express to instantly create a new item in the database. This kind of integration is essential to maintain any kind of productivity if you're going to make heavy use of an info manager.

And I agree with Daly about Infohandler. Something put me off first time around (the program does not have an immediately inviting interface). But once you get comfortable with Infohandler's category system, its power and ease of use is attractive. It's certainly now on my info manager shortlist.

JohnK

For now I will have to split it across these applications:

TexNotes - for most information storage where format is required (webpages etc)

TakeNote - for brainstorming, document creation. Have approx 300 pages of notes for job tasks (computer - SysAdmin, Operator). Allows for easy grouping, publishing and of course finding. Was NoteMap 2, fails when documents grew past 50 pages - hard to sort, merge or find when in many files.

Zoot - for Calendar and Tasks. Any information where formatting is not required.

Really do not think there will ever be one program for all. Can hope.

Daly, is there a way to test drive TakeNote! or at least a demo version of it? I found no such link in the website, only direct buy.

alx

My apolgoes to those who've heard me say this before, but I vote for (and I use on a daily basis)....

Thinktank.
Why? Here are some reasons:

1) It is simple. It lets me focus on what I an trying to organize, not on the tool itself.

2) It is fast. It runs like greased lightning. That's because it was written for the Intel 8088 & little memory, so the code is very tight.

3) It is fast to operate: once you learn to navigate with the numeric keypad, you can get to data fast. I know this is heresy, but using the keypad is much, much faster than using a mouse.

4) I've been using a version since 1984 and it feels like a second skin to me. I've had a to-do list on it since about that time--it has evolved of course but is essentially the same file! I've gone down the learning curve & don't have to do that again (obviously this will not apply to the rest of you out there but it is an important factor, no matter which program you use).

5) It has all the necessary features (clone, mark & gather, hoist, etc.) but none of the superfluous bells & whistles.

6) See #1: It is one of the very few programs that follows the KISS principle: Keep it Simple, Stupid.

With each successive release of Windows it get harder to run, unfortunately. I've thought about hiring someone to port it to Windows, and may have to go that route eventually.

Paul Ceruzzi