Chandler and Other Updates?
Posted by daly_de_gagne
on 5/18/2004
daly_de_gagne
5/18/2004 6:59 am
I was surprised when I did a Google search for outliners.com for "chandler" that I didn't get any hits.
I was wondering what the latest is on Chandler development. Given the dollar and talent backing Chandler, it seems to me that it has taken an inordinately long time to get off the ground.
Similiarly, I wonder about MIT's program Haystack, which seems to have become bogged down at a point where it was almost a year ago.
I was also at this site http://home.comcast.net/~whkratz/id88.htm this morning and saw an intriging glimpse at an outline in Outlook.
Any word on what's happening with any of these products?
Thanks.
Daly
I was wondering what the latest is on Chandler development. Given the dollar and talent backing Chandler, it seems to me that it has taken an inordinately long time to get off the ground.
Similiarly, I wonder about MIT's program Haystack, which seems to have become bogged down at a point where it was almost a year ago.
I was also at this site http://home.comcast.net/~whkratz/id88.htm this morning and saw an intriging glimpse at an outline in Outlook.
Any word on what's happening with any of these products?
Thanks.
Daly
ureadit
5/18/2004 10:19 am
For Chandler, go to
Open Source Applications Foundation - Our Product "Chandler" ...
http://osafoundation.org/OSAF_Our_Vision.htm
It is in ver 0.3 - still developer stage. It apparently won't run under Win 98SE - at least on my machine.
Here's some HOT news about UserLand & Frontier:
http://www.userland.com/stories/storyReader$211
Also see Dave Weiner's Blog at http://www.scripting.com/ . Here's an excerpt from it...I hope Dave will not mind:
"As you may know, I have left UserLand. It's been almost two years, and while in some ways I wish I were there to drive the products and compete with the great companies in the blogging space, I know that I can't do it. I don't think a lot of people know that I left for health reasons, but I did.
"Anyway, these days UserLand is largely a company that markets and develops Manila and Radio. My concern was when will UserLand get around to enhancing and improving the "kernel" -- the large base of C code that runs Manila and Radio -- the scripting language, object database, verb set, server, multi-threaded runtime, content management framework. It's been several years since there was a meaningful update of that code.
"Products that Manila and Radio compete with don't have their own kernels, they build off development environments created by others. For example, Movable Type is written in Perl. WordPress is PHP. Blogger is Java. UserLand's products are different because they build on a private platform. For a long time we saw this as an advantage, the UserLand runtime is very rich and powerful, and offered performance benefits. When a new layer came on, for example the CMS, when it got stable and mature, we'd "kernelize" it, so it would be super-fast. But experience in the market said that, to succeed, UserLand didn't need to own its kernel. In fact, that it was the only developer using this kernel may well have been a liability for UserLand.
"Here's another angle. In 1987 we sold Living Videotext to Symantec, and along with it, sold them our products, ThinkTank, Ready and MORE. I appreciate what Symantec did for us, I'm still living off the money I made in the public stock offering, but the products died inside Symantec. I'm not blaming them for that, because it's very likely they would have died inside Living Videotext had we not been acquired. But some good products disappeared. To this day people ask me what became of MORE, and tell me how advanced it was, and how nothing has replaced it. It's a sad story, and a shame, that the art of outlining took such a hit. I swore this would never happen again. There are a lot of good ideas in that base of software that you won't find elsewhere. If it disappeared it would be a loss like the MORE loss.
"To fans of UserLand Software it must seem inevitable that the kernel will go this way, it sure did to me. But I am on the board of directors of the company, and I persuaded my fellow board members that it would be in the company's interest to let the kernel develop separately from the products that build on it. And that's what I want to announce today. At some point in the next few months, there will be an open source release of the Frontier kernel. Not sure what license it'll use. There won't be any grand expectations of what kind of community will develop. Even if no bugs get fixed, if no features get added, if no new OSes are supported, it will be worth it, because its future will be assured. That's the point Ted makes, and that's my reasoning behind this.
"We decided this quite some time ago, but waited for the right moment to start discussing it publicly. It seems now is the right time, or as good a time as any."
Open Source Applications Foundation - Our Product "Chandler" ...
http://osafoundation.org/OSAF_Our_Vision.htm
It is in ver 0.3 - still developer stage. It apparently won't run under Win 98SE - at least on my machine.
Here's some HOT news about UserLand & Frontier:
http://www.userland.com/stories/storyReader$211
Also see Dave Weiner's Blog at http://www.scripting.com/ . Here's an excerpt from it...I hope Dave will not mind:
"As you may know, I have left UserLand. It's been almost two years, and while in some ways I wish I were there to drive the products and compete with the great companies in the blogging space, I know that I can't do it. I don't think a lot of people know that I left for health reasons, but I did.
"Anyway, these days UserLand is largely a company that markets and develops Manila and Radio. My concern was when will UserLand get around to enhancing and improving the "kernel" -- the large base of C code that runs Manila and Radio -- the scripting language, object database, verb set, server, multi-threaded runtime, content management framework. It's been several years since there was a meaningful update of that code.
"Products that Manila and Radio compete with don't have their own kernels, they build off development environments created by others. For example, Movable Type is written in Perl. WordPress is PHP. Blogger is Java. UserLand's products are different because they build on a private platform. For a long time we saw this as an advantage, the UserLand runtime is very rich and powerful, and offered performance benefits. When a new layer came on, for example the CMS, when it got stable and mature, we'd "kernelize" it, so it would be super-fast. But experience in the market said that, to succeed, UserLand didn't need to own its kernel. In fact, that it was the only developer using this kernel may well have been a liability for UserLand.
"Here's another angle. In 1987 we sold Living Videotext to Symantec, and along with it, sold them our products, ThinkTank, Ready and MORE. I appreciate what Symantec did for us, I'm still living off the money I made in the public stock offering, but the products died inside Symantec. I'm not blaming them for that, because it's very likely they would have died inside Living Videotext had we not been acquired. But some good products disappeared. To this day people ask me what became of MORE, and tell me how advanced it was, and how nothing has replaced it. It's a sad story, and a shame, that the art of outlining took such a hit. I swore this would never happen again. There are a lot of good ideas in that base of software that you won't find elsewhere. If it disappeared it would be a loss like the MORE loss.
"To fans of UserLand Software it must seem inevitable that the kernel will go this way, it sure did to me. But I am on the board of directors of the company, and I persuaded my fellow board members that it would be in the company's interest to let the kernel develop separately from the products that build on it. And that's what I want to announce today. At some point in the next few months, there will be an open source release of the Frontier kernel. Not sure what license it'll use. There won't be any grand expectations of what kind of community will develop. Even if no bugs get fixed, if no features get added, if no new OSes are supported, it will be worth it, because its future will be assured. That's the point Ted makes, and that's my reasoning behind this.
"We decided this quite some time ago, but waited for the right moment to start discussing it publicly. It seems now is the right time, or as good a time as any."