Hi, just caught a reference to this group in the London times,
Im glad to hear that others are using old outliners too.

Anyone out there using PC Outline, or its cousin Grandview?
Ive used PCO v3.34 since the middle 80's with DOS as a TSR that was
instantly available with a hot-key while lurking above the 640k
limit. The only problems Ive had relate to the BLACK HOLE bug
which will sometimes cripple an outline. Perhaps someone has a
fix for that problem.

ciao, Bob

iam not too sure whether i am 'ontopic' or not. if not, apols.

anyway, does anyone have any experience with THOUGHTLINE. i came highly reccommended but was not suitable for a winnt4 environment.

any comments would be appreciated, esp. via email to

brian@asm-u-net.com.

thanks

brian

I started with David's Ready pop-up DOS outliner, moved eventually to Grandview, which I loved so much I used to run it in a DOS window when I moved to Windows 3. Eventually it became too much trouble, but boy, they just don't make outliners like they used to. And none of the personal org PIMs have to-do list/project managers as good as a good outliner...

Framework a scriptable outliner with integrated with database, spreadsheet, graphics and telecommunications was first released by Ashton-Tate in 1984. It won PC Magazine's innovative product of the year award that year. After Ashton-Tate merged with Borland, Framework was bought by Selections & Functions and is still available. The website is http://www.framework.com . I have sent an email to Moshe Frankel at Selections and Functions pointing him here and inquiring about getting the earlier versions of Framework posted online.

I still use GrandView, and it is an excellent product. Although it was a DOS application, it was wonderful. I outlined many books in it. I would love to have a Windows version of the product now.

I know I bought GrandView from Symantec, but am not sure what company they bought it from.

Hey Bob, great to find some-one else in the world who still uses PC-Outline. I have used it for 10 years now, and I just love it. I too have found the "Black Hole" Bug a problem. I assume you mean the bit where you are scrolling down and all of a sudden the whole text just shoots off the page - leaving you nowhere to go. It seems to emerge when the file sizes get much above 30k, so I just keep my files smaller than that. Bit of a pain, but you can work around it. I also have found that if I re-open the file, I can copy each block above the problem block to a new file in a new window. Seems to work for most of the text. Its like only that block is corrupted - not the whole file. I am keen to find a Windows based outliner that can match PC-Outline. So far I have found that they all suck. Don't even mention the outliner in Word (UGHH!). All my colleagues at work think that I am off with the pixies using an old program like PC-Outline for all my work, but then none of them seem to have any idea (or interest) in what a good outliner can do. I'd love to know if you have found something to replace PC-Outline. Fortunately I can still use it since it seems like it wasn't affected by Y2K at all. Funnily enough, neither was my MetaStock V2.5. It happily accepts 00 dates and places them in the right order after 99. Someone must have thought through the problem and included a solution at the outset. Cheers, Ray Soper